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First time buyer/restoration advice

3075 Views 67 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  Caper50, 
leoheller
I have always wanted a Ford mustang from either 66 or 68. I now have the opportunity to buy one! It's a C code V8 coupe from 1966. For the most part, it's rust-free with one or two (badly patched) rusty areas. At some point in the 70s, the owner swapped out the V8 for an inline 6. In 2021 the owner decided to restore the car and swap back a V8 but only got as far as to take out the Inline 6. I have an appointment to check it out on Tuesday. The price is approx half of what running coupes go for here. He has a few V8 engines that he is willing to sell for anywhere from 500$ to 3000$.
A few more things about the car: Steering wheel, wheels, and front seats are ugly-looking aftermarket parts. In the pictures, it looked like there were one or two dents. The headlight buckets are either not fully screwed in or the fitment is just terrible because there are huge panel gaps. The car used to be burgundy red but was repainted with candy apple a while back. The paint job looks ok. Breaks, transmission (automatic), electronics, and suspension all are in good shape and have original V8 parts according to the seller. The Interior is in a state where I would be ok with not touching it but obviously not showroom quality.
My questions:
  1. Am I in over my head swapping the V8 back in? I have some experience working with older fords (Ford Taunus 1965) but am not a mechanic. I have access to most tools, friends willing to help as well as a car lift.
  2. Is there anything mustang specific I should pay attention to when checking it out? (Things that will end up costing me a lot of money/time to fix etc)
  3. Any other advice is also appreciated!
EDIT: A little bit of extra info
VIN: 6T07C158163
Asking price: 10990€ (In Germany this is a great price for a mustang. Driving cars go for around 20k)
I am really not trying to restore to showroom quality and am ok with subpar results as long as it drives and looks good from 6ft away!
It comes with papers.

A small update:
The seller never answered my questions because "i don't have time to answer so many questions".
I then asked him if there was any wiggle room on the price or not (I had no intention of paying 10990 but never got as far as to tell him). He decided to insult me because "i never discuss prices over the phone, you don't call the bakery and ask to negotiate the price of bread". Then he said he finally looked at my questions in the email and who I think I am to ask them and what am I expecting from his car. Following that conversation I of course informed him I won't be coming to check out the car.

All in all I am so happy I came here first and thank you all for your help. I really dodged a bullet imo.
I guess he was hoping he could sell the car to some unknowing idiot (me) and get away with it.
You guys just saved me a 7h drive, a lot of money and time, thanks!

In case you were wondering what kind of outrageous questions were in my email here are just a few of them:
Was the car in an accident
What happened to the I6
Why are the body panels so lose
What's that weird patch in the trunk
Are the original motor mounts included
What V8s he has on hand.

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leoheller
AZ_Ryan said:
The short list of things to look for is rust, rust, and rust. Thoroughly check the underside of the car. Frame rails, floor boards, and torque boxes. If the floor boards are shot chances are so is the cowl. Poor some water down the cowl and check for interior leaks.

Remember there is ALWAYS more rust than you can see on the surface.
Click to expand...
That seems reasonable. If the rust is in acceptable amounts/non existent are there any other things to watch out for? The seller said the 66 only came with rear torque boxes, is this true? In the video he showed me there was no rust to be seen on the rear torque boxes and the floor pans looked great. (Ofc there was some surface oxidisation but nothing serious)
Let's hypothetically assume the rust is only minor like the seller said and the car really is a C code and has all the V8 parts like cooler, exhaust, mounts and transmission. Are things like the suspension prone to wear out over time? Do i need to worry about the axels?
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JeffTepper
To answer your initial questions directly.
  • Structural rust is an expensive and time consuming problem for many of these cars. (for example repairing a leaky cowl properly can easily run $2000+ US at a competent shop)
  • Prior collision damage repairs. (Many of these cars were smacked around when new and often had substandard quality repairs done) Some repairs need to be redone to be safe.
  • Some prior owners have inflicted considerable damage when attenpting modifications and upgrades (make sure the car passes any safety inspections (i.e. MOT, etc) before you buy.
  • Project cars require time, skill, space, money, and tools. Be honest with your self about the time line, available funds, and your skill sets. Some projects have taken more than 10 years to complete and have staggering budget overuns as the scope of work expands over time.
  • Not sure what a competent Mustang Shop charges in your area. For a full rebuild to high driver standards here in he US can easily run tens of thousands of dollars US, show winning cars more
  • There are several members of this community in Europe. Bruno in Belgium, Josep in Ibiza Island, Johnny in Ireland come to mind. They likely know other knowledgable Mustang owners as well
  • Be patient and shop wisely. Good luck.
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zray
As rare as Mustangs may be, patience is your friend. It may take a year to find the right car. Don’t rush into one the first ones you find.

What are the roadblocks to importing a car from say England, for example ? Many more Mustangs there than on the continent.

Z

PS : as AZ_Ryan points out, the opportunities for rust are endless, especially the cowl area . At least pour water down the outside cowl vent and see if if comes inside the car behind the dash.

Realistically, the entire car should be examined with a magnet for (excess) bondo and an ice pick or other sharp object to put some pressure on the floor board / pan, and other rust prone areas to see if there is any “give” or actual punch thru an area that’s been impacted by corrosion.
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J
Can't really tell from the photos, is that body filler around the rear window and tail light panel? Like Dad always said, don't buy a project thinking you will save money, buy a completed one and let that guy lose money.
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Israel
Hidden rust is probably the number one concern,…,
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K
Welcome. Very nice.
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HPjunki
Just looking over your pics has me curled up in the fetal position, sucking my thumb and starting to cry. I would not even consider that car myself, and I am a fairly competent/experienced mechanic, unless nearly given to me and it was a toy project. First off, there is most definitely a ton of rust. Second, there seems to be gallons of bondo. Third, all panels seem thrown together haphazardly. Fourth, makes zero sense someone removed a V8 and installed a 6, and have that one “just fail last year.” Nope, aint buying that at all. Way too fishy.
I know Mustangs are super rare over there and would be so cool to own. But step back and really contemplate what will need to be done. Do you have the experience, time and money to complete?
What you seem to have here is some mysterious v8/I6/blown/ rebuild I6 or V8”conver-conversion” in a seriously messed up body that looks like someone attempted to stop the rust explosion many years ago which is currently rearing its ugly (super FN ugly) head.
Sorry my friend, this would be a hard No for me.
Good luck.
Troy
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leoheller
JeffTepper said:
To answer your initial questions directly.
  • Structural rust is an expensive and time consuming problem for many of these cars. (for example repairing a leaky cowl properly can easily run $2000+ US at a competent shop)
  • Prior collision damage repairs. (Many of these cars were smacked around when new and often had substandard quality repairs done) Some repairs need to be redone to be safe.
  • Some prior owners have inflicted considerable damage when attenpting modifications and upgrades (make sure the car passes any safety inspections (i.e. MOT, etc) before you buy.
  • Project cars require time, skill, space, money, and tools. Be honest with your self about the time line, available funds, and your skill sets. Some projects have taken more than 10 years to complete and have staggering budget overuns as the scope of work expands over time.
  • Not sure what a competent Mustang Shop charges in your area. For a full rebuild to high driver standards here in he US can easily run tens of thousands of dollars US, show winning cars more
  • There are several members of this community in Europe. Bruno in Belgium, Josep in Ibiza Island, Johnny in Ireland come to mind. They likely know other knowledgable Mustang owners as well
  • Be patient and shop wisely. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Great reply, thanks!
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jjfish
Undoubtedly there will benumerous mechanical repairs needed on these old cars, suspension steering brakes etc. not a big deal. Sticking another engine/transmission in, not a big deal. RUST is a BIG deal. It looks slapped together and there is evidence of rust and patches. Inspect it very very carefully. Water in the cowl, ice pick, magnets , all good advice. Definitely take someone along that knows where to look for rust if you don’t. Also accident damage is a buggy. Look for buckles and waviness on every panel, inside and out, underneath, frame etc. body work is expensive. It’s easy to get excited and love is blind. Many people have given up on their dreams because of rust. Don’t be one of those. Good luck.
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leoheller
zray said:
As rare as Mustangs may be, patience is your friend. It may take a year to find the right car. Don’t rush into one the first ones you find.

What are the roadblocks to importing a car from say England, for example ? Many more Mustangs there than on the continent.

Z

PS : as AZ_Ryan points out, the opportunities for rust are endless, especially the cowl area . At least pour water down the outside cowl vent and see if if comes inside the car behind the dash.

Realistically, the entire car should be examined with a magnet for (excess) bondo and an ice pick or other sharp object to put some pressure on the floor board / pan, and other rust prone areas to see if there is any “give” or actual punch thru an area that’s been impacted by corrosion.
Click to expand...
Importing from the UK is hard, especially now that they have left the EU. Also with the travel expenses of inspecting the car and then having it shipped back, there is little to no difference to importing from the US. In both cases it ends up being cheaper to just buy a finished car here.
I'll bring a pointy screwdriver and magnet to check everything out. I'm more and more skeptical of the car.... thanks for your help!
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leoheller
HPjunki said:
Just looking over your pics has me curled up in the fetal position, sucking my thumb and starting to cry. I would not even consider that car myself, and I am a fairly competent/experienced mechanic, unless nearly given to me and it was a toy project. First off, there is most definitely a ton of rust. Second, there seems to be gallons of bondo. Third, all panels seem thrown together haphazardly. Fourth, makes zero sense someone removed a V8 and installed a 6, and have that one “just fail last year.” Nope, aint buying that at all. Way too fishy.
I know Mustangs are super rare over there and would be so cool to own. But step back and really contemplate what will need to be done. Do you have the experience, time and money to complete?
What you seem to have here is some mysterious v8/I6/blown/ rebuild I6 or V8”conver-conversion” in a seriously messed up body that looks like someone attempted to stop the rust explosion many years ago which is currently rearing its ugly (super FN ugly) head.
Sorry my friend, this would be a hard No for me.
Good luck.
Troy
Click to expand...
What makes you believe there is a bunch of rust? He showed me a video of the underbody and floorplan and I couldn't see any except for one corner where they had already put in a new sheet. I will ofc check for any rust. Yeah, I will also check for bondo.
I also agree that it seems a bit sketchy and will ask the seller for more information on the swap. My theory is that it was in a crash that messed up the original V8 so they put in a I6. In that case, I won't touch it! The body panels don't seem to be messed up to me, just seem to be incorrectly fastened. Do you have any insight on what the underlying problem might be here?
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leoheller
Israel said:
Hidden rust is probably the number one concern,…,
Click to expand...
Most of my cars have had rust. Is hidden rust such a big concern for drivability with classic mustangs? I don't plan on restoring the car to showroom quality so if there is a bit of rust somewhere I'm fine with that as long as it has no impact on drivability and or safety. Any structural rust would be a dealbreaker for me, but I wasn't able to see any in the pictures/videos.
Thanks for the advice and I am already learning so much here!
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PLB
Some great advice there.
Bottom line is money! If you can’t afford to buy a runner the only option is buy what you can afford. BUT, in the long run it’s more work and can end up more expensive, that’s the gamble.
I live in Spain and it’s completely different trying to find new or secondhand parts here because as you know everything is twice the price it should be. If we lived in the US or the Uk it’s a different thing, lots of parts new and used available.
If you want to check out Ebay Uk there are always cheap coupes on there.
Some good guys on the forum with a vast knowledge of these cars and I’ve already learnt a lot from them. ( and I’ve only had my 65 Fastback since April )
Good luck!
Buena suerte amigo!
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leoheller
PLB said:
Some great advice there.
Bottom line is money! If you can’t afford to buy a runner the only option is buy what you can afford. BUT, in the long run it’s more work and can end up more expensive, that’s the gamble.
I live in Spain and it’s completely different trying to find new or secondhand parts here because as you know everything is twice the price it should be. If we lived in the US or the Uk it’s a different thing, lots of parts new and used available.
If you want to check out Ebay Uk there are always cheap coupes on there.
Some good guys on the forum with a vast knowledge of these cars and I’ve already learnt a lot from them. ( and I’ve only had my 65 Fastback since April )
Good luck!
Buena suerte amigo!
Click to expand...
Exactly my point! I just have no idea what gamble im getting into. Is this a 90% chance of needing less than 15k to repair? Or is this a 50/50 chance?
I have access to a lot of equipment and people willing to help me so I can also manufacture some parts if need be. Maybe save some money that way?

That's awesome to hear and from the responses here i can definitely agree, people here are great!

Good luck with your FB, maybe one day I'll get my hands on one as well ;)
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PLB
leoheller said:
Exactly my point! I just have no idea what gamble im getting into. Is this a 90% chance of needing less than 15k to repair? Or is this a 50/50 chance?
I have access to a lot of equipment and people willing to help me so I can also manufacture some parts if need be. Maybe save some money that way?

That's awesome to hear and from the responses here i can definitely agree, people here are great!

Good luck with your FB, maybe one day I'll get my hands on one as well ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks,
You’ll get there. I was looking at coupes as well because that was my budget. I nearly bought a beauty from Germany ( pic attached) previous resto and a real nice car. I had been looking at Fastbacks in the Uk and Europe for months. All of them where silly prices even for cars needing work.
This where it gets interesting- I’m talking to my Danish friends here in Spain telling them I’m going to buy a 65 Coupe. I then said to Lars I had given up looking for a Fastback because of costs and then he said have I tried Denmark.
As he was already sat at his computer he did a search and 2 FB’s came up immediately.
I ended up buy one of the for just over 30,000€ !! I couldn’t believe it.
So the moral of the story is, never think you won’t have something because in this strange life some nice things can happen.
Just stay positive!

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richardsimon52
That rear taillight panel looks as wavy as the ocean. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't filled with bondo. See that rust at the bottom of the rear window...you may have a big surprise when you pull the rear window out. The car looks very thrown together for the purpose of selling it. It appears the last owner got in over their head on this project...you don't want to be the next victim.
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leoheller
PLB said:
Thanks,
You’ll get there. I was looking at coupes as well because that was my budget. I nearly bought a beauty from Germany ( pic attached) previous resto and a real nice car. I had been looking at Fastbacks in the Uk and Europe for months. All of them where silly prices even for cars needing work.
This where it gets interesting- I’m talking to my Danish friends here in Spain telling them I’m going to buy a 65 Coupe. I then said to Lars I had given up looking for a Fastback because of costs and then he said have I tried Denmark.
As he was already sat at his computer he did a search and 2 FB’s came up immediately.
I ended up buy one of the for just over 30,000€ !! I couldn’t believe it.
So the moral of the story is, never think you won’t have something because in this strange life some nice things can happen.
Just stay positive!
Click to expand...
Wow. Those look amazing! 😍
Did you go visit the FB or have Lars check it out? That's an amazing price!
I still have some hope left and will keep checking the marketplaces every now and then :)
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leoheller
richardsimon52 said:
That rear taillight panel looks as wavy as the ocean. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't filled with bondo. See that rust at the bottom of the rear window...you may have a big surprise when you pull the rear window out. The car looks very thrown together for the purpose of selling it. It appears the last owner got in over their head on this project...you don't want to be the next victim.
Click to expand...
Yeah the more I look at it I agree. Maybe I can get a good bargain on it for 5k, who knows. Would be cool to have a cheap running mustang even if half of it is Bondo haha.
But i probably won't end up buying it following everyone's advice here.
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PLB
I phoned a local mechanic that was 15 mins away from the car with intentions to pay him to check the car out.
When I explained it was a 65 Mustang he said “ I love those cars” then said he didn’t want anything because he would be happy to see a car that he had grown up admiring!
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leoheller
PLB said:
I phoned a local mechanic that was 15 mins away from the car with intentions to pay him to check the car out.
When I explained it was a 65 Mustang he said “ I love those cars” then said he didn’t want anything because he would be happy to see a car that he had grown up admiring!
Click to expand...
Haha that's awesome! Importing from the USA has become rather cheap (1800$ for shipping + 7% of the sale price in import duties)
I might use that trick of sending a local mechanic to check it out!
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