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FNG with tons of questions

3723 Views 42 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  GenTso
This is my first post, and im accustomed to posting an into first, so ill just slap it on the front end of this questionare of sorts

First off, My name is Dan and im 22. I live in PA, and im NEW to vintage mustangs. I have alot to learn, and am willing. Currently, im deployed to Iraq, and will be home shortly wrench in hand.

Im no gear head by any means, but i just purchased a '67 6cyl auto coupe. Body is in good shape, just needs a little reworking. This is a project for me and my father (who has been not just a mustang enthusiest for years, but a ford enthusiest for years). He will be the brains behind this operation. However, i am doing all i can to learn up.

He had a 351w sitting in his garage he has donated to the project. We have both selected a T-5 convertion kit from Modern Driveline.

These are the parts i have selected for the car myself through help of one of my buddys here with me. The goal is a good combination of reliablility and streetability, with a little 'UMPH'.

Summit Cam - Duration 204/214 Lift .448"/.472"

Summit Street/Strip Stage II Intake

Wolrd Products Windsor Sr. Iron Heads

Edelbrock 1411 Carb

Anyone good at estimating HP gain? Any suggestions are helpful to improve that number. Without the stroker, I'd like to be spending 2000, AT THE VERY MOST 2500.

Now my father had said about stroking it. I understand it adds cubes, am i right as guessing its more of a tourque thing?

I wont keep typing all the tons and tons of questions i have, ill get to them in due time im sure. Thanks for the help in advance.
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I can't really answer your questions... but thank you for keeping our country safe.

Good luck with your project when you get home.
Welcome! and as a Vet... Thank you very much!

Sounds like a nice street-able combination. Fairly mild, with a bit of a large carb for the cam. Probably a 600-650 would be plenty.
I like your manifold choice, I think people don't realize what it really is, and pass it up.

Since the price on the head is for each one, the pair is going to be a bit over $900.00. They are good heads, if you want to stay cast iron. For about $100.00 more, Edelbrock has a new set of "E-Street" heads, which compete against the garbage Patriot heads (and others) coming over from China.
If you are interested in reducing some more weight, and a bit more "bling" factor, this may be a nice way to go.
I'd guess with a good build and a 6K redline, this should be about 300-320HP through a T-5. So you are well within the ratings of what the T-5 can handle.
Since torque and horse power are directly related, a "stroker" (which normally includes a bore job) increases torque, and horse power.
But, you will need more head and cam to support it. So the cost goes up seemingly exponentially. And that's before you get to the chassis, and transmission mods for durability.
Personally, I like the way you are going. Plenty of room to grow, without spending a bunch on stuff you'll swap out later.

Good luck on your build,
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Sounds like a good little setup. I would spend a bit more on the cam and the heads. A decent set of edelbrock alum heads will not be too much more and it will save me a lot of weight. I would shy away from a Summitn branded cam, I know a lot of people have had problems with some of the summit branded parts and you want a good quality. I would stick with a comp cam. The intake will probably be fine though.

For what it is worth...

I ran your combo through a dyno simulator; I had to guess at your compression ratio and I chose 9:1. I also specified small tube headers and open exhaust, so the numbers generated should be a bit on the optimistic side.

The simulation showed about 320 Flywheel HP, and about 400 Flywheel ft/lbs of torque.

If modeled with stock manifolds and full exhaust it dropped to about 270 HP and 350 ft/lbs at the flywheel.

In either case the engine was all in by 4500 RPM and dropped off quickly after that.

You can expect about 15% additional loss through your transmission...

Of course you can always throw money after power; keeping in mind your tight budget I have the following comments/concerns:

1) Carb too big; will soften throttle response. (I agree w/ 650 CFM)
2) Cam too small (I'd look for duration @ 0.050 of 215-225). Nothing too wild, but a bump up from the current selection.)
3) What are you going to do about exhaust?

I would not bother stroking it unless you are doing a total rebuild and need to buy pistons, recondition rods, and turn the crank... in which case the incremental cost of stroking is fairly small.

Good luck and thanks for all you do.

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First let me say, thanks again. As someone with limited knowlege (as in i can for the most part name what i see in front of my, knowing little of the specifics of what it does) all this advice is im sure saving me oodles of cash, and time.

However, i was wanting to do a little better than that. It seems everyone agrees that the manifold is a good call. So that i will not change. I know im asking alot, but i was hoping to finance a way to be somewhere over 300 hp at the wheels. Basically what i did for this kit, was take the edelbrock power pack (the "bargian" kit), and match it with some cheaper gear with close numbers. If someone out there has the time to RECCOMEND some items for purchse, or could tell me what i have to do to get in the low to mid 300 range, i sure would appreciate it. Im sure some of you have some tried and true tricks and suggestions, and im open to all.

As far as the rest of the car, i was looking at using the rear thats in it (8" from a maverick), and having the local speed shop install a posi unit for me. I was thinking a set of 3.73 gears. Suspention, i have no idea what im doing there yet either. This is the intention of the car currently.

T-5 mentioned above

351w - Hopefully about the low 300 range ( and i was hoping for at the wheels.. if i need a bump in the budget, let me know how to do it on the cheap. This isnt something i want to keep ripping apart every year or two heh.)

Subframe connectors - I was told that the V6 was set up a little weaker than the V8. Never hurts to solid up an investment was my call on this one.

8" rear (installed)- install 3.73 rear upgrade
I do have a neighbor who i called who is doing a ford resto project of his own, and i believe he told me that he has a 9" rear he is gonna get rid of. I dont know what its from, but its definitely something to look into.

Then some asthetic stuff. The car has a few things that needs a ban-aid. Pass fender needs to be swapped, Hood, Front bumper, and one headlight bucket. They are not TERRIBLE and i can totally deal with it for now, but i was hoping to spend the winter getting this all together.

Anything you folks have in your head to throw out.. things that you should have done on your first build, anything looking back in hind sight that you wish you would have done, feel FREE to throw it out. My budget is flexable, and i would rather spend a little more and get what i want, than to spend twice if at all possible. However, i am cost concious. If i wasnt id just call TrickFlow haha.

Thanks again

*EDIT* I wanted to add the cardomain site i got when i purchased the car. Everything listed there is by the previous owner.
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Welcome to the VMF and thank you for your service. :thumbup:

What part of PA are you in (when you're home of course). I'm in Allentown, which is about 1 hour North of Philadelphia.

It'd be tough to guesstimate the HP gains, but that sounds like a pretty good combination you've got picked out.

Don't forget to upgrade the brakes on the car while you're doing the motor. No point in going fast if you can't stop!
Allentown is a hop, skip, jump, and a combat roll away. I live close to Hazleton. I find myself in Allentown on occation for business back home. Good to see a little local action around here.
The only recommendation I can add is...

1. Check with Summit to see if the cam billet is Chinese origin. Because of alot of cam failures I would recommend using a north american billet mfg

2. If it is Chinese, I would suggest calling Iskenderian, Crane or Crower racing cams for their input (as i really doubt they use chinese billets). The other item about Isky, is they physically test every valve spring before it leaves their shop- i think they are the only ones to do that- cheap insurance.
dont forget to chase down any rust issues b.c that stuff never sleeps and will f with u in the long run. definitely do the brake upgrade and go for something that is more than a single piston caliper. i dont know how you want to drive this car (street cruising or highway cruising or just racing...) but if you want to do any (comfortable) highway cruising then you might want to stick with the stock 8 inch gears and just upgrade the rear brakes instead. usually they have like a 3.00 gear or something similar and those still will get you off the line but not have you crusie at 3000 rpm + on the highway w/ a top speed of 80 or so. thanks for serving our country and i hope you and all your buddies get home safe. main thing on the mustang is to take your time and not rush anything.
I had my neighbor check the body out.. he said he was very impressed with how the body was rust-wise. He did say the car had a few bondo mistakes where the panels were replaced, but nothing major.. He said a supervised weekend in his garage will be sufficient :)

Im just tore up about what to do about this 351w. I wish i would have started learning this stuff years agao.
A couple more comments....

To get 300 HP to the wheels, you will need at least 350 HP at the crank. In you combo above, the heads are holding you back (as well as the cam). Below is a link to Mustang Steve's 400 HP 351W build; however note the cost to build this - power = money. Additionally I would probably substitute a comp cam for the crane and AFR 185s for the Edelbrocks...

The Edelbrock power package numbers seem to be regarded as optimistic by many, and the Edelbrock cams are viewed as old technology. Comp cams has much more aggressive ramp rates that yield better power.

351W build recipe

This would get you about 340 at the wheels.

The early V6 cars used 4 lug wheels and lighter suspension parts... but the actual bodies were no different. Subframes are a great idea for any Mustang; V6 or V8.

The 8 inch rear should be fine as long as you don't hook up; if you run slicks or very sticky tires it may not hold up.

Good luck and keep safe in the home stretch!
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I'm at work and as such may have missed it somewhere but isn't this a 6 cylinder car? If you intend to drop in a 351w you're going to want/need to do some upgrading to your front suspension.
Yes it is a 6 cyl car, so to the op you do know you will have to change the front suspension if it still has the 6cyl stuff in it right? If it has a 8 in rear end it should have 5 lug out back. Make sure you do the safety and strengthening first before you build the pwer, including brakes etc..
oh yea, suspension. thanks captian obvious (just kidding) i cant believe none of us commented on that. LOL. yea, front suspension upgrade is a must. bigger swaybar for sure. i went w/ the grab a trac suspension. its ok, but nothing fancy. not too impressed w/ the struts that were w/ the kit also. roller perches, 620 springs, tubular upper and lower control arms, monte carlo bar (optional), better strut tower brace, poly or rubber bushings, etc... well now you got even more stuff to think about and spend your $ on. youre 2-3k budget just got a little bigger. it happens to all of us. :)
yup 3k turns to 5k and out of nowhere it turns to 20k :loco:
Again, all great information. The 2-3k budget was for the engine alone. I have a seperate budget for the tranny planned. Now i have to plan yet another budget for the suspention upgrade. Because im trying to stay on the cheap, what components MUST be changed. Ill start my suspention research now.

You all have been a great help. I cant say thank you enough.
wish i had 2-3k to put in an engine...some people have all the luck/money :) what u will need is: upper and lower control arms, sway bar, springs and perches, can prob reuse the tie rods but might as well replace, all bushings. your best bet is just searching for a complete kit and not buy pieces separately. if youre not road racing the cheap/mid priced stuff sounds like it will do fine for youre application. good luck.
Just for added info, this is going to be mostly a cruise, fun summer car. Might see the track just for sh*ts and giggles. Nothing more
Might want to keep your eyes open on the 5.0 Mustang classified forums. Every now and then, I'll see a set of 185 AFR or TF heads for a good price ($1k to $1,200). If you are considering a stroker down the road, step up now and get 225s.
185s, with a more agressive cam will put you in the mid 300s with good driveability, and decent mileage running a 600-650CFM carb, good headers and exhaust.
With a turbo or supercharger, down the road they can take you into the 500HP range with some porting. After that you'll need more "breathing" room (and a better transmission).

As for suspension, I didn't see anywhere on the cardomain site where the suspension components were replaced. I'd have the suspension , and frame inspected first. When the radiator was pushed into the engine, it bent the radiator support, which most likely twisted the rails. Not a big deal. They can straighten any damage at a frame shop. But that needs to be done first, or the car will never drive right.
Then make a plan of what needs upgraded / replaced.

A front disc brake swap would be a big improvement. That will require changing the master cylinder as well. Some of the kits are under $700.00, and offer good stopping for a street/strip car.

Plenty of time to window shop, and peruse the used parts market. Your plan is solid, so stick with it, and be patient. The car will come out awesome.

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