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Discussion Starter #1
I'm still looking for a GT40P and just spent another day in the junk yard with nothing to show for it. BUT I did come across an add for a 302 with 351 heads.It's a few hours away so I haven't seen it yet and I haven't talked to the seller yet. Will this fit into a 65 Mustang? Would exhaust be a hassle? It's advertised as a high performance engine and he says he has video of it running wiith 60 psi oil pressure.
Would this be a Cleavor engine? What questions should I be asking the seller about this engine?
 

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Actually, that's what many of us considered to be the hot ticket 30 years ago? Would be a Cleavor, more of an insult, IMHO.. Stick with the GT40Ps or save a few dollars and go with TFS or AFR 170s, or so, depending on the use of your intended build.
 
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The 1969-70 351W heads had slightly larger valves and the exhaust emissions ports not drilled out. A very minimal upgrade over "302" heads but back in the early days there weren't any other real choices. Nowadays I don't anyone bothers with old 351W heads unless they are free or something. The main difference between 302 and 351W heads are that 351W's used larger headbolts. They sell adapter shims or special headbolts to use 351W heads with the smaller 302 headbolts so it's no big deal. GT40 and GT40P heads outperform the old 351W heads. (There's more to it than this. I am leaving out quite few details and generalizing a bit. But I don't feel like writing a three page post when all the nitpicky details are already out there for those who want it. Trying to keep focus.)

Not really interesting if the rest of the engine is stock. You can't tell the difference between a 302 or 289 with 351W heads or stock heads without looking at the part numbers. They are the exact same size and fit except for those headbolt holes. In the later 1970s and on up, 351W and 302/5.0 heads ARE the same as far as performance goes. If the engine is priced well as simply a used 302 that is supposed to run....then up to you.

A Clevor is a Windsor engine with 351 Cleveland heads on it and the special Buddy Bar intake that makes that work. Not this engine.
 

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Back in the 70's me and many other 289-302 guys put 351W heads on our 289-302 to make more power. The exhaust system stays the same. Some put boss 302/351C heads on 289-302 with custom pistons and boss 302 intake and Tubular Automotive headers. Maybe thats why there is a ton of over the counter boss 302 intakes out here.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is the only difference between the 351W and the 351C the size of the runners?
 

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Isn't there some old Ford Motorsports/Racing guide from the late 60s that tells you how to build a 12.5:1 289 with LeMans cam and 351w heads that makes 430hp or something? Pretty cool but probably not practical today with all the options we have.
 

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Is the only difference between the 351W and the 351C the size of the runners?
the in and ex ports are bigger on the C the valves are way bigger and tilted(canted).
The combustion chamber is different.
 

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Is the only difference between the 351W and the 351C the size of the runners?
No, the head architecture is completely different. The W heads have an "inline" valve arrangement and a coolant passage to the intake manifold whereas the C heads have canted valves and the coolant passage is back to the block and the intake manifold is "dry". The port shapes are also different. Here are pictures of Windsor and Cleveland heads, below:

Windsor
763431



Cleveland
763430
 

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Isn't there some old Ford Motorsports/Racing guide from the late 60s that tells you how to build a 12.5:1 289 with LeMans cam and 351w heads that makes 430hp or something? Pretty cool but probably not practical today with all the options we have.
The vintage road racers can get 450hp on the engine dyno with 351W heads and Shelby style intake with holley 750 and solid roller and 12:5:1 comp at about 7500 rpm from a 289.
 

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Ok, this engine has Windsor heads.
If they're newer than '74 they're no better than seventies 302 heads and worth about a 1.5:1 drop in static compression ratio over '65-67 289-4v or '68 302-4v and about a half a point drop over a '68-74 302-2V. The '69-70 versions are the best with a combustion chamber of around 60-1/2cc.... still 7/10th of a point drop but much better flowing. If your engine has OE-type dished pistons I'd pass on ANY 351W head.... you'll end up with a motor that has about 7.8:1 static CR.
 

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74R, there were, begining in later 1968, 302 Ford Marine engines that had the 351W heads, and the new firing order. You may have found one of those, or you may have found one of the many engines with the 351W heads swapped onto it. It was a popular way to go 30 yrs ago, when we had few choices. Its still fine, and will fit nicely into a 65 without needing anything special. LSG
 

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There are lots of "Old school" modified engines out there, due to lack of quality aftermarket parts and costs. The Cobra Jet engine "creation" is one.

Some time ago, I answered a for sale ad on a wrecked 1966 ? Mustang. Cruddy looking body before it was wrecked, trashy interior. The engine had 4 tons of money into it, including K heads, a close ratio 4 speed and a 9" locking rear eng. The price was cheap by taking it all. The woman who was selling it had the shakes. Whatever wasn't tatted up was pierced. It was her boy friends car, he was in prison, she had wrecked it, and she was bailing out before he got out of prison.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm really grateful for the info you guys have given me.
I hope to speak to the seller today. He's described it as a high performance engine. His picture shows it with a fuel injection setup that I'm not familiar with, but he stated that he's keeping the FI setup.
If all it's got is a big cam, I'll definitely pass. If it more to it, I'll look into it and bring you guys some more questions.
 

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That he's keeping the EFI setup for another engine rings alarm bells for me. Sounds like he's trying to "ditch" this engine. I'll take an old bone stock and worn engine over one someone's been screwing around with any day. Starting to sound like a can of worms. Just pass on it.
 
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Isn't there some old Ford Motorsports/Racing guide from the late 60s that tells you how to build a 12.5:1 289 with LeMans cam and 351w heads that makes 430hp or something? Pretty cool but probably not practical today with all the options we have.
You are thinking of Ford's Muscle Parts program. They had staged step-by-step instructions for upgrading all Ford engines.

763473
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Can anyone ID these casting numbers for me?

Head: 3B23, 23 or 29 on the front corner, 351, 9A and he said it has guide plates and roller rockers and it takes the larger spark plug.

Block: B20E-8016-AB, 3G11 or 3011

It came out of a customized 1950 Ford truck.
 

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Ill let the other guys confirm, but B2OE-8016-AB and 3G11 seems it was an engine from July 11, 1953??? But the 289 or 302 where not created yet. The 302 I think came out in 68 and 289 in 63. I could be wrong but if those are truly the casting codes on the block, doesnt make sense.
 
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