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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All, because alot of us are adding fuel injection, I'm asking what injection system do you have, and why did you choose that system ? What intake is the system on top of ? How is it working ? Did you have to write a new fuel graph ? Do you let the injection control the ignition timing ?

What about the choice of fuel ? We have ( at the shop from which I retired ) the owner and several customers running on E85. This gives you ~105 R+M/2, and it is less expensive than regular ! I am also intersted in the idea of deliberately overfueling in open loop at part throttle under heavy acceleration. What says you ?

In the interest of full disclosure, I will be running a Rochester 2bbl TBI, and it will be on top of my 8020 Weiand Stealth ( tallish dual plane ). The current setup has lightly ported E7TE heads on a 302 ( 2002 ) with a small flattappet cam Comp 35-255-5. Also has a Jacobs ignition that I would prefer to keep, but I am not sure that is carved in stone. Hoping to run some ported small chamber 289 heads later, with 1.9/1.6 valves Lots of other projects going on at the same time, but since retirement, I am hoping to be able to play at this during the summer. LSG
 

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1965 Mustang Fastback GT350-Tribute Restomod. 2019 Shelby GT350.
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My ’65 Fastback is getting a first generation Edelbrock E-Street TBI system going on a 289 with an Edelbrock “Performer-RPM” top-end kit (intake, heads, roller camshaft). This system was selected at the recommendation of my engine builder. The engine is assembled and ready to go, but unfortunately has been sitting in the garage for 2 years while life happens around it. This flu issue is giving me an opportunity to (maybe) get it done by summer. We'll see.

We’re using an MSD distributor, so I think the EFI will control the timing on this setup. The engine was run-in on an engine dyno using a carburetor and long-tube headers because the EFI and Tri-Y headers were not yet available when the engine was completed. The result showed 350 HP at 6500 RPM and 340 torque at 4300 RPM.

We’re hoping the addition of the EFI and Tri-Y’s will improve the torque, possibly at the expense of top-end HP. This will be an autocross car, so the goal is broad mid-range torque.
 

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67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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I personally wouldn't care to use E-85 unless accompanied by turbo(s) or a supercharger. Just E-85 and high compression doesn't add up for me. Either street manners and gas or E-85 and full on wild ape.
Before I got distracted by other vehicles E85+turbos was on my list. Scaled that back because of too many other projects.
 

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I have a Holley Terminator on a Weiand Stealth intake as well. I machined the divider down about 1/2 an inch so the MAP sensor would get pressure readings from both sides since that's an issue with the Terminator/Stealth/FiTech models that have the MAP sensor on the TB as well as create a little better fuel dispersion, though in hind sight I would've absolutely used the Terminator ECU and a standard TB with MPFI if I could've found an intake that had it ready to go when I did the swap, now there are a few options. I didn't have to write a new fuel graph but I did have to fine tune it as it's self learning but not perfect. I have the Holley Dual Sync distributor that the system controls and it does a fantastic job of it. Set it and forget it. Build your timing table and AFR table the way you want it and drive, do some fine tuning and it's good to go. I still run premium fuel, no E85 for me.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Gents, it seems that the 4 barrel throttle bodies are really bigger than I need, as the 2" Rochester has flowed enought to make 495 lbs -ft and 390 hp on a Ch--- 454, so I think there will be enough fuel and air. Also, the aftermarket 4V TBIs all seem to open all 4 throttle bores at once, and if doing a 4V, I would want sequential. It DOES seem abit late in the game to be thinking of such a build, when first comtemplated, regular gasoline was over $3 per gallon, race gas was 9+ or more. Just filled the pickup at Murphy's ( Wal Mart ) yesterday for $ 1.45. Never thought we'd see prices like this again, but I can not imagine they will stay so low once the quarrentines are lifted.

Anyway, working for the engine shop, I got to see LOTS of builds. 1 was my employer's 428SCJ, with 13 to 1 and a 4.25 stroker crank. He had a carb done by a local E85 guy, and it works great. But, he has 3.91 gears, and no overdrive, so it is a point & shoot, short fun drive only car. And it starts reluctantly in sub 40* weather. I would like to try E85 to be able to run higher compression, but, if it is late November and its 35* out, but we don't have any snow yet, ( common ) I want to be driving the Mustang. I figured if I were spraying the fuel instead of drawing it though a booster, it would vapourize easier in cold weather. We have built several high compression N/A engines, and the turbo/blower crowd loves this stuff. But the cheap 105 rating was what got me interested. That, and wondering what if you wrote your own fuel table, how much can you overfuel in open loop and make extra low speed power ? When on the dyno, most of the gasoline engine engines quit gaining power when you get too rich. But, because E85 is carrying some of its own oxygen, the window of flammability is wider.

Then, I wondered how close to gasoline miles-per-gallon could a fellow acheive if he really worked at it ? All of our E85 builds so far have been for power, and we never cared about how much fuel used. SO, what if you DID build for economy ? I was hoping that if I wrote my own fuel curve, I could be really rich upon accelleration, but lean out as much as possible when the engine is up to speed.

I don't fish or whittle or golf or sit in a rocker, so, why not. I was going to use a Dynamic control box, don't know if any of our men have used one on this board or not. LSG
 

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I am running Holley Sniper EFI, roller cam 302, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake. Spectra EFI fuel tank, Earls vaporguard feed and return lines. Holley Hyperspark distributor, CDI box and coil (plug-n-play ignition kit). I have been messing with this system for a long time and a few things I have learned along the way. First, the system is sensitive to EMI, so before you do anything, wire the computer direct to the battery and make sure all your other wiring is perfect or you'll have issues. Second, if you want to control timing, get the Hyperspark distributor set-up. I ran an MSD 2 wire and the Sniper coil driver and timing was so goofy and hard to make run right, I threw in the towel and the Hyperspark system has run great so far (only a few test miles so far but light years ahead of the MSD). For a 2 bbl build, I wouldn't even mess with Holley (or any system) controlling timing. Huge amount of work for little gain. Let physics (vacuum or mechanical advance) do what it does. Hope this helps!
 

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65 Fastback 289 4 spd, 65 convertible 5.0L 5 spd. 3.73 8.8
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Hey All, because alot of us are adding fuel injection, I'm asking what injection system do you have, and why did you choose that system ? What intake is the system on top of ? How is it working ? Did you have to write a new fuel graph ? Do you let the injection control the ignition timing ?

What about the choice of fuel ? We have ( at the shop from which I retired ) the owner and several customers running on E85. This gives you ~105 R+M/2, and it is less expensive than regular ! I am also intersted in the idea of deliberately overfueling in open loop at part throttle under heavy acceleration. What says you ?

In the interest of full disclosure, I will be running a Rochester 2bbl TBI, and it will be on top of my 8020 Weiand Stealth ( tallish dual plane ). The current setup has lightly ported E7TE heads on a 302 ( 2002 ) with a small flattappet cam Comp 35-255-5. Also has a Jacobs ignition that I would prefer to keep, but I am not sure that is carved in stone. Hoping to run some ported small chamber 289 heads later, with 1.9/1.6 valves Lots of other projects going on at the same time, but since retirement, I am hoping to be able to play at this during the summer. LSG
To run E85 you need to have everything setup for it. fuel lines need to be stainless, fuel pump, carb, or EFI computer remapped.
 

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Also, the aftermarket 4V TBIs all seem to open all 4 throttle bores at once, and if doing a 4V, I would want sequential.

That, and wondering what if you wrote your own fuel table, how much can you overfuel in open loop and make extra low speed power ?
I can't speak for the Sniper but the Terminator is able to have a progressive linkage so that not all 4 throttle bores open at once, that's actually how I have mine setup currently, it's more like a traditional double pumper in that regard of being able to adjust it.

Also can't speak for the particular box you want to use but you can absolutely do exactly what you are asking with a Terminator ECU. If you want you can set a specific AFR or even fuel flow at a given MAP and RPM across the entire spectrum, it will do what you tell it to do or it will do as you let it do if you allow it to tune that way. For example I do not let the ECU compensate for anything at idle to around 1500 RPM as I have set that manual to make it run the best with a dual plane manifold, over 1500 RPM I only allow it make up to 25% adjustments so that it doesn't mess with my base fuel tables too much once I got it dialed in correctly. Hopefully this makes sense, may not be exactly what you are looking for but I figure if the Terminator can do it then the box you're looking at running most likely would as well.
 

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Sniper runs E85. Just click the setting for ethanol in the software. The stoichiometric A/F value for E85 is 9.7:1. The injectors will be running at a higher duty cycle than gasoline to supply more fuel. So you need to make sure you have enough duty cycle overhead for the additional fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Jmo, why the stainless thought on tank & lines ? we have setup the engine forE85 for several customers, and ALL of them are useing existing tanks and lines. Fuelpumps have been higher volume than stock, but NOTHING was listed as special for alchohol. Been 6 years now, haven't seen any trouble. And these cars sit for six months.

For fueling, the injectors are 90# at the early 14psi rating. I was going to use a vacuum referenced Marine adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and run at 30 psi. I believe this will give me the 125~130# I need. The fuel flow that I want is actually pretty low, compared to some of the racecar stuff some guys use.

I am also looking at what GM of Brazil was doing for their hydrated ethanol cars. There was a separate injector assembly available there, that bolts to the top of the normal Rochester 2 bbl throttle body. But the OEMs don't like to admit they know about this kinda thing. I think the normal 454 injectors will be enough, I am only feeding a 302.

LSG
 

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If I wanted/needed to run e85, I'd be calling on Haltech - Unlock The Power! they seem to know their stuff when it comes to corn juice and they have a sensor that can detect the ethanol content in the fuel and adjust accordingly.
 

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65 Fastback 289 4 spd, 65 convertible 5.0L 5 spd. 3.73 8.8
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Jmo, why the stainless thought on tank & lines ? we have setup the engine forE85 for several customers, and ALL of them are useing existing tanks and lines. Fuelpumps have been higher volume than stock, but NOTHING was listed as special for alchohol. Been 6 years now, haven't seen any trouble. And these cars sit for six months.

For fueling, the injectors are 90# at the early 14psi rating. I was going to use a vacuum referenced Marine adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and run at 30 psi. I believe this will give me the 125~130# I need. The fuel flow that I want is actually pretty low, compared to some of the racecar stuff some guys use.

I am also looking at what GM of Brazil was doing for their hydrated ethanol cars. There was a separate injector assembly available there, that bolts to the top of the normal Rochester 2 bbl throttle body. But the OEMs don't like to admit they know about this kinda thing. I think the normal 454 injectors will be enough, I am only feeding a 302.

LSG
All of the factory's run stainless fuel lines. Ethanol is corrosive. E85 vehicles are not supposed to sit with fuel in tank over the winter.
 

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I have a basic bare bones system installed. Just a FITech 400 hp trottle body unit on top of a stock A code manifold on a heavily bored out 289 block (298 cu). I went this route because of the (relatively) low cost and the ability to use FITech's "Fuel Command Center - FCC" (no longer made in the same form), I modified the FCC to have a constant flow through fuel return line.

It has performed very well. I'm not having it control the timing. Prior to fuel injection the engine had a very difficult time idling below 1,000 rpm. It has a Crane cam (I don't know the specs, but it only has 8-9" of vacuum at an idle of 850) that makes great power, but had a significant lope and very rough idle with a Ford 4100 carb (rebuilt by a Ford Carb Pro with 40 years of experience). With the FITech system it idles almost smooth and can go as low as 750 rpm, but surges a bit - it seems to work fine around 850 rpm. I've replaced the points with an electronic ignition module in the stock distributor housing. I upgraded the alternator to a 3G 130 amp unit.
 

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Serious consideration for Coyote installers. Senses E85 and tunes accordingly
 

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I have a Holley Dominator... It might be slightly overkill for my application, but I wanted a system that could handle anything that I ever wanted to throw at it in the future. Plus, its one of the few aftermarket EFI systems that can handle dual oxygen sensors which is something that I think is valuable for debugging issues.

So far I'm very happy with it, once the I got everything set up right, it just runs.

-Shannon
 

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I went with the foxbody era EFI with an Explorer intake. It's a proven system that's works and replacement parts are OTC at any auto parts stores.
 

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I too have the fox era EFI (modified) on my 347 being run by a chipped A9L.

At the time I did it, it was really the only "practical" choice.

If I was doing it today, there's no way I would go the route I did. There are better options out there now including the systems several of you are running.

I agree with Gypsy on E85. I see a lot of people using it in high boost applications (and I mean INSANE amounts of boost) but it makes no sense to me for a N/A V8 or even one that has low boost (say 1 bar or less). Why? It's harder to buy, it will kill your gas mileage/range, it requires specialized everything from the oversized fuel pump to handle additional volume, to compatible materials throughout the system to custom tuning. If you have 2 liters and a big turbocharger...this may be your best option....but that's not what most of us are building here. Again a full on race car might be running enough boost it needs the octane E85 provides....but a street car with say 5 to 7 liters of V8? Too much downside for the useful outcome.

Phil
 
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