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You really need an egress in the basement or attic regardless of its use. I'd call it a storage room, and build it to code for living space.
 

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Is the 3 car garage on the same property as the former house? If so, you would need to check to see if they would allow two separate dwelling units on the same property otherwise you may run into an issue when you go to rebuild. In rural Wisconsin they would not allow either a bathroom or kitchenette in a remote garage on the same property as the main cottage.

One other thing to consider is the need for a 1 hr fire separation between a garage and living space.

What's a few years? Is there anything in the area to rent? How about an RV upgrade that could be lived in and sold when house is rebuilt?
 

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None of those features makes it commercial.
Says....you? Who? That's not correct. If it's a break room you have to build it to break room code occupancy space requirements (among others). Same for waiting area. Those requirements are not defined in residential code.

But all of this is missing the point. Trying to be clever with what you call a room is not going to make your situation any better, because there's a code requirement for everything, and commercial code requirements are generally more strict than residential (and the aforementioned rooms do fall under commercial code requirements).

The other thing OP needs to be aware of is 1 hr fire barrier as was pointed out. In residential, this means there needs to be fire resistant 5/8" drywall on the wall between the house and attached garage. In the case of this garage, the entire ceiling of the garage would probably need to be this.
 

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Says....you? Who? That's not correct. If it's a break room you have to build it to break room code occupancy space requirements (among others). Same for waiting area. Those requirements are not defined in residential code.

But all of this is missing the point. Trying to be clever with what you call a room is not going to make your situation any better, because there's a code requirement for everything, and commercial code requirements are generally more strict than residential (and the aforementioned rooms do fall under commercial code requirements).

The other thing OP needs to be aware of is 1 hr fire barrier as was pointed out. In residential, this means there needs to be fire resistant 5/8" drywall on the wall between the house and attached garage. In the case of this garage, the entire ceiling of the garage would probably need to be this.
That may be true in your neck of the woods. Just not the case everywhere.
 

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That may be true in your neck of the woods. Just not the case everywhere.
Keep on diggin man. It is true per the IBC (International Building Code), which is the code for building standards. Almost every jurisdiction sets building standards by the IBC. That's why I can discuss with my brother, who is a commercial architect and owns his own firm in Iowa, building code requirements for my own projects, despite the fact that we're in two different states. They're going to be the same for me here as they are for him in his designs. That, and I've read the entire IBC. And the NEC.
 

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Keep on diggin man. It is true per the IBC (International Building Code), which is the code for building standards. Almost every jurisdiction sets building standards by the IBC. That's why I can discuss with my brother, who is a commercial architect and owns his own firm in Iowa, building code requirements for my own projects, despite the fact that we're in two different states. They're going to be the same for me here as they are for him in his designs. That, and I've read the entire IBC. And the NEC.
Lol I wont argue that, but not every jurisdiction sets codes, ibc or otherwise. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't counter mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
All, not sure about permits and inspections. It seems that it is just a money racket. That said, I may well follow and even exceed some of the codes. After watching my home burn, it is obvious that the gov't doesn't give a damn about your safety. If safety was important, the gov't would demand fireblocks on older houses with ballon framing. But, they don't. Ballon framing, if you don't already know, has 3 chimneys, basement to attic, every four feet. Its a dumb way to build a house, but 100 yrs ago, everyone did that. My garage is less than 20 yrs old, and has platform framing. But it has no lightning arrestors, or ground rods. Having been through a fire, I think I have lots of learning to do, to see what is the best way to go. Been looking at foam isulation today,.....some is fireproof, some is solid gasoline. Have to pick the right kind. If you look at insulation, code lets you do whatever you want, or no insulation if you want. Some plywood burns easily, some very slowly. Lots to learn. LSG
 

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Lol I wont argue that, but not every jurisdiction sets codes, ibc or otherwise. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't counter mine.
I'm citing the IBC. That is not anecdotal. If you can show me a single jurisdiction that does not have any building codes--you can go build whatever the hell you want however you want--then you will have a point.
 

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If you look at insulation, code lets you do whatever you want, or no insulation if you want. Some plywood burns easily, some very slowly. Lots to learn. LSG
That's not true by IBC...where did you see this? There are minimum R value requirements for walls and ceilings, and in some cases when above a crawl space, floors.
 

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All, not sure about permits and inspections. It seems that it is just a money racket. That said, I may well follow and even exceed some of the codes.
That's all it really is. My electrical inspector spent a total of 5 minutes in my house after I wired it all myself, for the rough-in inspection. Said he could tell I'd done my studying and it looked really good. But never ONCE did he ever look in my main panel to verify I tied in my subpanel correctly. Now, had he looked he would have seen that I did a nice, correct job, but that's beside the point. He never looked to see how I routed a 6 gauge cable from upstairs to the main panel downstairs, nor did he request to see the inside of the panel. And the final inspection, what a joke. Walks in and looks at nothing--because all your outlet covers and recep covers are on. Never checked to see if the receps were wired correctly. It really is just a money grab.

I still abide by the code for best practice, and it won't get you into issues later on down the line if you had a picky buyer that tried to stick you on that.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Health, my place is not in a city, but rather in a rural township. We have no zoning. There are mansions on 40 acres, there are also half a dozen one room shacks on a single acre. Not really interested in the legal permission, or lack thereof. MUCH more interested in safety, particuarly from fire. Was talking to a fellow in my Torah study group, he recommended some 'mineral wool' insulation. Costs more, but moisture proof, rodent proof, and fire proof. Sounds interesting. LSG
 

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I'm citing the IBC. That is not anecdotal. If you can show me a single jurisdiction that does not have any building codes--you can go build whatever the hell you want however you want--then you will have a point.
Well since this is a residential project stop spouting IBC(commercial) regs at them as his project falls under IRC or whatever form of IRC his state/commonwealth has adopted. See VCC/VRC in the Commonwealth of VA as an example of a governing body adopting some but not all boilerplate regs. Also depending how far out they are he still possibly could have no code compliance, up until about 5 years ago Fall Branch TN did not have codes/compliance. I helped my brother CAD the plans for his house and it was the first set of drafted plans the building department had seen for a residence. his was the first residence after they adopted codes. There are still some BFE places out there. Also code offices can choose what they make you comply with. For example IBC requires a relief ancgle for masonry veneer above about 35 feet or so which makes no logical structural sense to support masonry on wood studs instead of on itself, especially when the wood and masonry contract and expand at vastly different rates, building department allowed us to go 55 feet with no relief angles just proper expansion joints at window openings etc on some condos we did. Yes he needs to find out what his local building department will allow and yes calling a bedroom an office or a bonus room is done all the time to avoid said building regs.
 

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Well since this is a residential project stop spouting IBC(commercial) regs at them as his project falls under IRC or whatever form of IRC his state/commonwealth has adopted. See VCC/VRC in the Commonwealth of VA as an example of a governing body adopting some but not all boilerplate regs. Also depending how far out they are he still possibly could have no code compliance, up until about 5 years ago Fall Branch TN did not have codes/compliance. I helped my brother CAD the plans for his house and it was the first set of drafted plans the building department had seen for a residence. his was the first residence after they adopted codes. There are still some BFE places out there. Also code offices can choose what they make you comply with. For example IBC requires a relief ancgle for masonry veneer above about 35 feet or so which makes no logical structural sense to support masonry on wood studs instead of on itself, especially when the wood and masonry contract and expand at vastly different rates, building department allowed us to go 55 feet with no relief angles just proper expansion joints at window openings etc on some condos we did. Yes he needs to find out what his local building department will allow and yes calling a bedroom an office or a bonus room is done all the time to avoid said building regs.
My point was residential code doesn't cover 'break rooms' or 'waiting rooms.'
 

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9 years ago, on a lark, decided to see how bad it was with the US Census Bureau. Interesting, made some money, but what was eye opening was having to go to all the places that were occupied. The earlier team had mapped out anything that could possibly be used, and we followed up.

No judgement call on HOW they lived, just wanted to COUNT them.

Example: 2 bd, 1 car garage, 3 other rooms, 16 people, all related.
3 bd, 1 bath, about 1200', 28 people, unrelated, no one born in the USA
Auto Repair Facility: 4 people, unrelated, lived there, 3 in various storage areas, one in the office area.

You would truly be amazed where people had permanent residences. Multiple houses were listed as vacant, but when you checked at night, lights were on. They had tapped a neighbor's house for electricity.

The local government did not care about HOW things were happening, and promised no action would be taken against landlords, people subletting, etc. Their concern was utilities. For example, the 3 bd 1 bath, was build in the early 1960's, and was "meant" for mom and Dad, and 2 kids. Mom stayed home and did house, while Dad worked, and kids went to school (sorry, no judgement on the 1950's and 60's). The whole neighborhood, 500+ houses, was planned out that way for water, sewer, etc. Now, change that to 28 men living in 1 house, all coming home from roofing, etc, all trying to shower, bathe, whatever, cook, wash dished, use the toilet, and real quick the water line coming in and sewer going out can't handle to load.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
MustangBob, I remember working for the census, it was very interesting. Watched some folks run out the back door and out into the woods. Never found out who they were. They must have been afraid of SOMETHING, I certainly don't think I am that scary as an individual.

to all, been looking at my floor joists and thinking that 2 x 10s on 2 ft centers may not really be enough for me to fell comfortable. So, If I were to add another 10 or 12 ft joist inbetween every joist I have now, right on top of my 6 x 24 engineered lumber center beam, what to do at the out board ends of the new joists to prevent see-saw rocking ? Bridge tie them ? another support beam parallel to main spine ?


Also looking at my dormer windows and contemplating exchanging them for something more fire escape friendly.

LSG
 

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MustangBob, I remember working for the census, it was very interesting. Watched some folks run out the back door and out into the woods. Never found out who they were. They must have been afraid of SOMETHING, I certainly don't think I am that scary as an individual.

to all, been looking at my floor joists and thinking that 2 x 10s on 2 ft centers may not really be enough for me to fell comfortable. So, If I were to add another 10 or 12 ft joist inbetween every joist I have now, right on top of my 6 x 24 engineered lumber center beam, what to do at the out board ends of the new joists to prevent see-saw rocking ? Bridge tie them ? another support beam parallel to main spine ?


Also looking at my dormer windows and contemplating exchanging them for something more fire escape friendly.

LSG
It all depends what your unsupported SPAN is. With a live load of 40 psf and deflection of L360, the max span for 2x10 at 2'OC (I'm assuming it is spruce pine fir SPF), is 14' with minimum bearing of 1.1 inches on each end. If you want a live load of 30 psf, which is common for most living areas, then your max horizontal span is 15' 5" with minimum bearing length of 1".

Here is a calculator for calculating span. If your floor joists are SYP (southern yellow pine), you gain more span as it's a stronger board. Your span with SYP is 16' 8".


If you were to take a picture of your joists I'd be able to tell if they were SPF or SYP. Your floor joists will have stampings on them also saying what grade and wood they are. It's pretty common to see SYP for floor joists.

Your deflection is the amount of 'bounce' in the floor. At L360 your floors won't be very bouncy. This is also standard deflection.
 
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