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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What a lousy way to end a week, my judging sheets arrived today. The judges took 97 points off my car! That is more than I lost total in the last two Grand Nationals plus a National. It's also 5 points more than the 1997 Grand National where I took a Bronze and hadn't done anything to the undercarriage at all. It's just unbelievable. We're still waiting for Chuck's sheets but already we can see where I lost maximum points for items identical to what he has on his GTCS (he won a Gold). In one case I lost 10 points for not having overspray and for having overspray (on the same item!). In all cases the maximum number of points was taken off on a category even if only one item in the group had a problem. And, yes, they took a point off for the wrong antenna. Guess I'm just a dumb blonde who knows nothing about her car.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Are you really blonde? *G*

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Sorry this turn out so poorly. Got tons of judging stories but this is the wrong forum to share them

But your example it just another reason we should teach judging (seminars) in addition to testing them ;)

Jeff Speegle
MCA Shelby Gold Card

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That sucks, Is there a Way to go above the judges, Like to contest a Point? I don't know much about concours shows but it seems like the judges at the show needed some more study time.....to say the least. I'm sure they know alot more than me but if they don't know what there are doing They need to step down or hit the books....

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"In one case I lost 10 points for not having overspray and for having overspray (on the same item!)"
That is the stupidest(is that a word?) thing I've ever heard. These people must have had their heads up their a$#es! Did one judge deduct for the overspray and another deduct for not having it? Doesn't really matter, it's still stupid.

Josh
Cullman,AL
64 1/2 Coupe

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Man, that sucks. You should have gotten a much better score. I can't believe that whole thing about the wrong antenna. *sigh* Sorry to hear about it. Good luck with your next show, wherever it is.

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[color:blue]1969 Mach 1-in restoration</font color=blue>
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Sounds to me like the judges had a blonde moment when looking over your car..*LOL*..I looked at my new Mustang Times..I did notice the judges in Pensicola had the same last names..probably the same DNA also...*LOL*

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"In one case I lost 10 points for not having overspray and for having overspray (on the same item!). "

What the heck is up with that??

JJ
69 Fastback 302 2v 3sp. trans.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was in the Trailered Concours class, 1967-1968 Closed. I've shown in that class since mid-1998 and won Gold at the last two MCA shows I attended, both Grand Nationals. Before that I showed in Driven Concours and won a Silver in 1998 and a Bronze in 1997.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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That's a shame. Normally the Pensacola show is pretty good and they have lots of long-time dedicated members. I wonder who did the judging--rookies? It doesn't sound like they've had much training nor worked together as a team. Don't let it get you down though, as you have seen, the Nationals and Grand Nationals you've been judged at seemed to have their act together more. You may want to provide the club some feedback on this in a tactful, not whining way, so maybe they can take action to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Rich
1966 GT convertible
 

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I understand there are new head judges for the 2001 season. Any chance they have decided to raise the interpretation of the rules to standards higher and a more "perfect" level than in previous years? Just a thought.

After looking your car over, last weekend, it would seem to be impossible to find any reason to deduct a total of 97 points. Overspray usually merits only 1-2 points, unless it's on the headliner!!!

Thanks again for your hard work on putting on a great Mustang show in Tuscon last week end. No rain, wind and lots of warm sun and friendly mustangers.

Mark Mosteller
Garden Grove, CA

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh, I think there was a lot more to it than just that. I've had dumb judges before, this was outright discrimination and nasty. Chuck took my judging sheets last night to review them and then we'll compare them to his. If they had done the same thing to him (on the items that are identical on our cars) at best he would have had a Silver.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The judging team had three people, one of whom only wrote down the points and comments. The other two were a Gold Card judge and an MCA Certified judge, both from an Alabama club. All judges have to sign the sheets so I know their names. I don't blame the hosting clubs and the show was great. We are definitely going back next year but if those same judges are assigned to my class (not likely) I will protest. After we compare our two judging sheets I will be sending a protest letter to MCA. I don't care about the trophy (they were terrible), what I do care about is the treatment I received from those judges and the fact that I don't get any bonus points toward the grille medallion. Also, at least I know something is wrong with the judging, it would have been worse to have this happen to a first-timer. This sort of judging cannot happen if MCA is to retain members.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed our show! Next year, it will be held a week later, the weekend of April 5-7. No, the MCA judging rules and standards haven't changed. The judges examined Chuck's car first (the Seafoam Green GTCS parked next to me at our show) and then mine. Our cars are very similar in originality, quality, and condition. He received a Gold, which is 21 points or less deducted. Generally, he is only about 10 points ahead of me on judging (i.e., he loses 7, I lose 17), but then my car also has several more items on it to be looked at in the engine bay. Something else was going on here. Hope you can make our show next year!

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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I hear ya!
When I was showing in your class, seems like there was always someone who would have a poorer car, dirty, bad paint, etc. that would always win a Gold while I would win a Bronze or Silver.... I decided that I would "kick the judges ass" with a car they couldn't find ANYTHING wrong with.... I did, wasn't fun any more, sold the car.

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Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience in Florida. I've been an MCA judge for a number of years and found that standards very from person to person. Some judges go very strictly by the book to try to make the "Gold" much more worthy while other are very easy figuring if you took the effort to bring out the car you should go home with something. Sometimes its discouraging to be judging with one of this people that are on either extreme. To bad you live so far away that you can't easily argue your case with the car right there with someone from the show. There have been mistakes made at our local car show were the scoring was done wrong or the score sheet misplace and we've gone back and sent people trophies after they've brought it to our attention. Maybe you could call someone from the hosting club. Regarding the overspray issue I got a friend with a 84 1/2 anniversary car the once got like a 10 point deduction for poor exterior chrome. The car does have any exterior chrome. Nobody has ever been able to explain that one.

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i think this needs to be brought to the attention of the assistant head judge for 67-68 mustangs which is Dave Zimmerman (908) 234-0535

No MCA gold card judge should have allowed this to happen, unless the person writing on the judging sheets thought he was supposed to deduct the full points for each category.

Please call Dave and explain to him what happened. He's a pretty nice guy and he will take note of what you say so long as you dont come across as complaining.

Charles Turner
MCA Gold Card Judge(64.5-65, 66)
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'00 GT Conv, triple black


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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Points for bad chrome where none should be...wonder if the judges were related to mine? *LOL* I went over the judging sheets some more today (I got them back from my friend after I promised not to tear them up) and saw that they took points off for no overspray on an undercoated car and then took points off for overspray on several items. First of all, my car is not undercoated and never was so not having overspray should not be an issue as that applies only to undercoated cars. Also, the items they think they saw overspray on had sound deadener on them not undercoating! Grrrr....

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the suggestion Charles, I'll do that. I'm just getting everything out of my system right now so I can come across as cool and collected when I do talk to "MCA management." *G*

One thing I noticed awhile ago on the sheets that just blew me away was on the undercarriage where they took off the maximum points on correctness and also on condition on one item group, but based it all on dirt and rust. This was a total of 15 points on items where I had just cleaned the evening before and I can assure you there was neither problem present. Even if there were, the items are absolutely correct (factory original) and only the condition points should have been deducted. We just don't understand it.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 
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