[sbryant]

The 351W in my '65 has a hard time getting started, especially when cold. I'm running 16 degrees initial advance per suggestions from fellow VMFers (Performer RPM cam). I have not recurved the dizzy and don' t know the total advance with the vac advance helping out. The carb is the same Edelbrock 1405 I used on the 289, which did not have this problem. The car doesn't seem to want to fire up when cold, so I have to do several 10 second or so turns of the key while giving it a little gas (just a tad, then if I hear signs of life I rev a couple of times. If I get it that far I just keep it at 1000 RPMS for a minute or two, then let off with a cold idle of around 500 RPMs in park. Warm idle in park is closer to 600 RPMs). The couple of friends I have talked to say it sounds like the timing is too advanced, but the car runs great and I don't hear or feel any pinging. I do have a sound that sounds like either a lifter or exhaust leak. Any suggestions? Thanks /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Shane

 

[70sportsroof]

Whoa buddy, hold that pony. The 16 degrees initial advance works well with the performer rpm cam, when combined with free-flowing heads, like the performer rpm heads, world, dart, AFR, trick flow, etc. Even a great bowl blending/port polish on stock 3512v heads will open it up to flow well and take advantage of the cam. If you are running stock heads with a stock exhaust, I think your are taking about 40 to 60 flyweel hp away from what edelbrock will tell you the performer rpm cam can do. If that is the case, the 16 degrees initial advance may be too advanced for cold starting. I agree that 16 degrees is usually spot on for a street built small block. I am running that with my 302 edelbrock total power package. It usually takes 2 and sometimes three turns of the key to get it started, even when warm. Just the nature of the beast. just for grins and chuckles, back the timing down to 12 degrees and see if it starts easier (should). If so, then inch it up to 14 degrees and see if it still starts easy, cold. If not, back timing down to 12 degrees. Then, you curve the distributor by changing the springs to lighter weight springs. This will bring in your advance earlier, basically getting you back to where you were with 16 degrees intial timing, but with the engine "retarded" for starting purposes. This is why MSD and others make an optional retard setting, some even have 2 retard settings. You set base timing way advanced, like 18 degrees or so for your hot rod engine, but have a retard of 6 degrees or so programmed for starting, then another retard programed for Wide Open Throttle when the Nitroius or boost kicks in.

Hope this helps. The 302 slightly modified likes anywhere from 12 to 16 degrees base timiing and 36-38 degrees total timing, with all of the advance coming in by 3400 rpm. This is what I read and also how I dyno tuned my engine.

good luck!

 

[sbryant]

Okay, I'll back off and see how she does. I'm using stock (non ported) 89 351W heads. Where can I get a recurve kit for the stock '89 dizzy? I don't see one listed in Summit or Jegs... Thanks for your help /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Shane

 

[70sportsroof]

Shane, now that I see your setup (stock heads, I assume stock dual exhaust) I am a little more sure about dropping back the timing to 12 degrees. The Edelbrock carb does not flow much over the stock autolite. It's darn reliable and easy to tune, has better metering, but by itself, is not that much of a potential gain to invoke a timing change.

hmm, 89 - that was an electronic ignition from the factory wasn't it? Computerized? I think all the advance curve is burnt into the chip in the ignition controller computer. I don't think the distributers had advance mechanisms in this, but this I do not know. I may have misled you re adjusting the springs in the dist. The dist. might not have mechanical advance in it, what with a computer controlling the timing. ON the other hand, you have a carb. and the computer is used in conjunction with EFI. I am confused by the 5.0 which got off of carb an into EFI and computer control by 89. Fraid I am not the 351 guru.

Can you fill me in on whether the ignition is computer controlled? Whether the dist. has mechanical advance? In a point style dist. the plate the points mount on is moveable and underneath it are two weights that are held in with springs. As the dist. rotates, the centrifugal force pulls against the springs and the weights pull away from the center of the Dist. As they do so, it rotates the plate the points mount on, thus changing the opening an closing of the points relative to TDC. I don't know that the 89 351 dist. operates this way.

What do you have going on for a dist. and ignition?

Thanks

 

[sbryant]

The Crown Vic was factory carb'd (apparently law enforcement was reluctant to embrace fuel injection?). The dizzy appears almost identical to the one in my 289 (from a 78 302 IIRC), except for the obvious height difference. It does have a vac advance port, and I have verified that it is working. Since it was carbed it doesn't have the notch/optical timing trigger BS, I can just rotate the dizzy to adjust timing. I'm using a Flamethrower coil, the GP Sorenson box, and the stock '89 351W dizzy. I don't know the date code off the dizzy offhand, it may be earlier than '89. The front cover had an early 80's code IIRC, and it had the boss for a mechanical fuel pump. It worked out well because I bought a new 289 water pump and it fit the front cover, so I didn't have to have my lower radiator outlet relocated. The engine originally had a serpentine belt setup. Basically, although the engine is '89 vintage, it's the same as any carb'd 351W now (well, it has the one piece rear seal, but aside from that...). As for exhaust, I have Headman shortie headers and dual Flowmasters. No X or H pipe (yet...). Thanks for your help /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Shane