Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I'm taking the 66 to the dyno on saturday. Old guy, neighbor of my uncle who's been tuning cars all his life. He wants me to bring my Holley 600 CFM carb and my Summit 500 cfm carb and see which one is better. Since I've never done anything like this before is there anything I should be on the look out for? Anything I should ask for, printouts, etc.

Generally, what is the process and what should I expect. He has already asked me for all my engine build info, distributor info.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,099 Posts
I recently took off a 600 Holley and put on the Summit 500 on my 289. I will be following.
 

·
Registered
1965 Ford Mustang fastback T5 Ncas 9in Locker
Joined
·
626 Posts
Yes on print outs and changes made between runs... have FUN.... do not be a dyno FAIL!
 

·
Registered
1967 Mustang Convertible
Joined
·
974 Posts
Ask for Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) reading to see if you are running lean or rich, can help tune later on. They will drive it in 4th gear since 1:1 and will rev it to what RPM you say, 6k or 5k up to you and give you the read out. Might want to test bumping up the timing down or up depending combination to see if it increases in power or not. Good Luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,122 Posts
What to expect? You'll be jacked up the morning of the dyno. Take a friend! The dyno owner (he) will more than likely have a cherry picker to unload your engine. As I recall I had to remove my flywheel and we installed his. He wanted the block to have NO antifreeze in it, as a matter of fact he wanted it clean but I had a little bit of rust colored water from pressure testing the water system. He then wheeled it in and we hooked it up to the dyno (the dyno operator had all the tools but I had mine as well). Then we installed the exhaust manifolds that he had. We hooked up the fuel system that he had to my carburetor. We then put in the break-in oil (I already had the timing set). He turned the engine over a few times but no oil pressure. We removed the distributor and spun the oil pump until we got pressure then re-installed the distributor. He tried to crank it but it wouldn't start, turns out he forgot to turn on his electric fuel pump. From there, it cranked and he ran it from 2000-3000 rpms to break in the cam (we had the dual springs removed and only had the single spring to break in with). Once done, I think it was lunch time so we broke and all went for a sandwich.

Upon return, we had to install the inner springs, so he napped. We finished and changed the oil and filter. Then the fun began. Have him take good notes as mentioned above on the changes (so they will print out on the report).

No matter what the dyno number is, you will want more, but it's inherent I guess. Try not to. I knew my engine could make more (still climbing when the valves started floating). Don't fall in that trap. Also, some dyno operators want to post a big number, others want to show you what your engine is doing and why. I hope he's the latter (sounds like he may be).

I hope you post a number that satisfies you, I did and learned doing it.

Good luck,

Allen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,578 Posts
When you do your runs make sure you tell the guy you want to see throttle response not just HP if that's possible. If they can track the throttle position vs hp to see how quickly the motor responds to inputs. Big Carbs can pull big numbers when you slam the foot to the floor and hold it there because you set up one flow and it just progresses with RPM. Throttle response is about the motor quickly tracking throttle position. Soooo, two carbs may have the same HP but the smaller carbs give you a quick response to throttle so when you punch it, the car is right there.

Have fun, its much smarter to bring a motor so you don't have to fret with an entire car on a drum screaming its bloody head off pulling at straps. If you really want a thrill, try one on a mobile system where you are on the top rack of a car carrier with teh dyno under you. Scared me worse that the rest of the day thrashing on Sears Point Raceway!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ok, thanks for all the info. Little bit of clarity, its a chassis dyno. I'll reread and digest everything posted. I'll get printout of everything and post sunday or monday. I know a few people have already contacted me about the Summit carb if I don't use. I'll respond to those people via PM.

So just a little background, the guy lived next door to my uncle and tuned his 57 chevy. He actually lives in NJ but stil has his shop and only comes up here on occasion and this is one of them. Basically we have the entire day to play with this. Can't wait!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
I just went from 750dp to 600cfm summit carb. I love it. So did my neighbor’s 400 Pontiac. So much so I didn’t think I’d get it back. Such crisp throttle response. I can’t wait to get it all properly installed and tweak it after vacation. Amazing for a $245 refurbished carb. Mind blown seriously.

As for dyno, I’d request a printout for each pull after the checkout pull. Write everything about the setup on the first sheet, then what you changed on each new pull. (Number them sequentially as well). You’ll thank yourself later. Write all settings on the printout of your best/final pull. These are fun to look back at years later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Does dyno shop have any carb jets on had to re-config carb as needed?
Yes. He has all the jets for tweaking.

As a heads up here are my engine specs:
289 block bored .60 over
Sealed Power H273CP pistons
60 CC chamber Patriot Aluminum heads with 180 cc intake runners, 1.6 roller rockers
Comp 31-216-23 cam
Cobra intake manifold
T5 with 3.55 Trac loc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Yes. He has all the jets for tweaking.

As a heads up here are my engine specs:
289 block bored .60 over
Sealed Power H273CP pistons
60 CC chamber Patriot Aluminum heads with 180 cc intake runners, 1.6 roller rockers
Comp 31-216-23 cam
Cobra intake manifold
T5 with 3.55 Trac loc
I have those same heads, so definitely curious on how they will perform


Sent from the interwebs... where else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,107 Posts
Does one of your collectors have an O2 sensor bung? These are best for getting the AFR reading A sniffer style is not as accurate due to the location and the possibility of and air leaks in the exhaust system. AFR, will tell you a bunch about how the jetting. Have fun, don't get crazy when the RS shoot up and the engine is screaming. If it stays together, you did a good assembly job, if not Sorry for your loss LOL!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Does one of your collectors have an O2 sensor bung? These are best for getting the AFR reading A sniffer style is not as accurate due to the location and the possibility of and air leaks in the exhaust system. AFR, will tell you a bunch about how the jetting. Have fun, don't get crazy when the RS shoot up and the engine is screaming. If it stays together, you did a good assembly job, if not Sorry for your loss LOL!
Unfortunately no O2 sensor bungs. As for the screaming, I have been warned! Also if it blows up.......Coyote swap?????????:LOL:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Chassis dynamometers are fantastic tools for driveline and chassis diagnostics. They are not, and should not be used as horsepower meters. That's not what they're for, and are variable in their ability to provide reliable or applicable info based on the goals, operator, operation, and settings used. If you are after improved performance (in many categories) and comparative analysis, they are tough to beat. The first question is: Why are you dynoing your vehicle? You cannot reach goals you do not have, and disappointment or missed opportunities are almost guaranteed.

Decide now, what information you expect or desire from the dyno session. Converse with your dyno operator the same information, to ensure you can not only obtain it, but any other statistical info or improvements you could have or use. Is the data only to represent full-throttle operation (e.g., drag racing), or across a range of operational parameters (real-world street or track operation)?

Decide now if any diagnostics and tuning will be performed for comparative analysis — is this only for single-point (snapshot) info, or will data analysis and additional tests for improvement options be made? Is the goal to allow or make improvements, or only a picture of "how it is" under specific parameters and conditions? How does that help you?

If tuning using the chassis dyno for diagnostics; are you expecting changes in engine operation (fueling, ignition, etc) at full-throttle only, or improvements in average torque output across a range for performance (quicker, faster), or chassis reaction (driveline efficiency for better power usage and transfer), or part-throttle efficiency improvements for response and fuel consumption, or analysis of component interaction suppressing performance (wrong carb, cam, exhaust, intake, etc) … or something else?

What are you after? What do you expect the data to tell you or do for you? Is your dyno operator/team capable of providing your goals? Dyno operators are like Doctors, and I suggest you pick yours for the right type and the ability to communicate, in order to get the most of what you're after. Unless all of this has been discussed and agreed to your satisfaction, the two of you may need to talk more. Talk to your Doctor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
@W427 the tuner is an old friend of my uncles. We're spending the entire day tuning the engine; different carbs, jets, power valves, timing...everything. It's a street car that I like to have some spirited driving. We're going to spend a day, have a few beers and some fun.

Watched video posted by @Westmus in another thread
A part of this how to choose a cam video are about dual profile cams.

Seen it before and re watched it . Great video and I ran some numbers given my engine specs:
Comp cam ADV dur 260, .447 lift, and 110 lobe separation with Patriot heads flowing 256/198 cfm at .500.

Going to try both 600 cfm carb and 500 cfm carb.


Over/under: 320 HP to the wheels?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Israel
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top