AFR185's
Help me choose the heads for my engine upgrade
I'm converting my 302 2v into a 4v. The engine has a newer, but very basic rebuild. The cam is super mild, almost stockish. I'm putting on this Weiand intake Holley Performance Products Street Warrior™ Intake Manifold 8124 and this Holley carb Holley Performance Products 570 CFM Four Barrel Carburetor - Aluminum 0-83570
Soooo...I have no idea which heads to get for it. I have a 2.5" exhaust and would like to eventually put on headers that will work with the Borgeson system. I need something that is bolt on and go.
No racing planned, just a good cruiser. Recommendations please?
Soooo...I have no idea which heads to get for it. I have a 2.5" exhaust and would like to eventually put on headers that will work with the Borgeson system. I need something that is bolt on and go.
No racing planned, just a good cruiser. Recommendations please?
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
afr are overkill for a stockish motor
get shorty headers later-- the 570 avenger is a good cruiser carb i just put one on our 68
the e7 heads from a later 5.0 might be an improvement-- check to see if they will work fine-- and theyre cheap 50 pr used and freshen them up..
edelbrock e streets are nice if you want to spend $900..
get shorty headers later-- the 570 avenger is a good cruiser carb i just put one on our 68
the e7 heads from a later 5.0 might be an improvement-- check to see if they will work fine-- and theyre cheap 50 pr used and freshen them up..
edelbrock e streets are nice if you want to spend $900..
Buy these!
1968 302 J-Code Heads - Rebuilt/Ported
I am selling them. I was going to pop them onto my 289 but I want to do a 5.0 roller and aluminum heads.
$677.08 shipped is what I paid for them exactly. I would take $600+ actual cost of shipping for a member here vs. the $800 I want from a random nobody.
Anyhow, sorry for the advertisement but I thought you may genuinely be interested. Reason I initially went with those heads was because I was going to stick with the 289 and although heads like E-Street were attractive on the flow side I knew they would kill the compression on my C-Code. Since you already have a 302 it's not as much as an issue. If I were you I probably would go the $1000 aluminum head route, 58cc chambers. It may be more flow than you need but there's also the front end weight savings.
I also agree that AFR 185s are overkill. You can make over 400hp with them. But if you ever wanted to grow into them you'd probably have the last heads you'd ever need.
1968 302 J-Code Heads - Rebuilt/Ported
I am selling them. I was going to pop them onto my 289 but I want to do a 5.0 roller and aluminum heads.
$677.08 shipped is what I paid for them exactly. I would take $600+ actual cost of shipping for a member here vs. the $800 I want from a random nobody.
Anyhow, sorry for the advertisement but I thought you may genuinely be interested. Reason I initially went with those heads was because I was going to stick with the 289 and although heads like E-Street were attractive on the flow side I knew they would kill the compression on my C-Code. Since you already have a 302 it's not as much as an issue. If I were you I probably would go the $1000 aluminum head route, 58cc chambers. It may be more flow than you need but there's also the front end weight savings.
I also agree that AFR 185s are overkill. You can make over 400hp with them. But if you ever wanted to grow into them you'd probably have the last heads you'd ever need.
What pistons do you have. Unless they are flycut, you are limited to valve size. I would buy jdub's heads, get out the die grinder and clean up the exhaust ports a little and bolt them on. As far as carbs go, Ford had the right idea when they built these things, smaller is better for a driver, best carb ever built is a 4100 autolite, and get the small one, 1.08
Have you looked into the Edelbrock top end kits? It might be a good move for you. The parts are matched to eachother and work well together. For a cruiser you should be more than happy. They've got good tech support too if you run into any questions. If you're sticking with the "stockish" cam, you could get away with some E7 heads, maybe a home port job...but by the time you get done cleaning those up you'll have a few $$ invested.
Any production head with portwork is more than adequate for your build.
I agree...buy jdub's heads...perfect for a cruiser and stockish cam...assuming the springs are setup for a hyd FT deal
I've been wanting aluminum to get rid of some of the weight. I'm already impressed with the weight of the intake.
What about AFR 165s?
I honestly don't know what kind of pistons I have. But considering the build was very low end I have to imagine they are stock replacements, except the engine was bored .030.
jdub's heads are an interesting proposition. I can see how that would be a good setup for my needs and much cheaper than aftermarket. Since I'm not familiar with pricing, what is the difference between getting those and just having my original heads done?
What about AFR 165s?
I honestly don't know what kind of pistons I have. But considering the build was very low end I have to imagine they are stock replacements, except the engine was bored .030.
jdub's heads are an interesting proposition. I can see how that would be a good setup for my needs and much cheaper than aftermarket. Since I'm not familiar with pricing, what is the difference between getting those and just having my original heads done?
Twenty years ago I ran a automotive machine shop and I am amazed at the prices that are being charged today, just like gas, more than doubled. A friend recently had a set of 312 heads done, hard ex. seats, new guides, valves, springs and surfaced for $590.
I used a set of 165 AFR's when they were first introduce. I wasn't to impressed with the fact that with the installed guide plates the tips of the rockers contacted about 1/2 of the valve tip. I split the plates and adjusted as needed and ground out the p/rod holes to get everything to function with the semi-correct geometry. AFR's response was "well sometimes a little grinding is necessary, but I really didn't need full contact on a street engine" . My response wasn't too nice, but the guy did finally agree that I could possibly have premature guide and stem wear. Probably won't buy anymore AFR stuff.
jdub didn't mention whether or not hard exhaust seats were installed in his heads. Ford didn't start using flame hardened seats until 1972 on light duty heads. With unleaded gas a soft seat such as what was originally on a '68 head will go away much sooner than a hardened one
I used a set of 165 AFR's when they were first introduce. I wasn't to impressed with the fact that with the installed guide plates the tips of the rockers contacted about 1/2 of the valve tip. I split the plates and adjusted as needed and ground out the p/rod holes to get everything to function with the semi-correct geometry. AFR's response was "well sometimes a little grinding is necessary, but I really didn't need full contact on a street engine" . My response wasn't too nice, but the guy did finally agree that I could possibly have premature guide and stem wear. Probably won't buy anymore AFR stuff.
jdub didn't mention whether or not hard exhaust seats were installed in his heads. Ford didn't start using flame hardened seats until 1972 on light duty heads. With unleaded gas a soft seat such as what was originally on a '68 head will go away much sooner than a hardened one
TW170s are by far the best choice IMO.
TW i have in my stroker. VERY nice heads
. my original suggestions still stand on a early style block tho
althought IMO i would toss the 289 get a late model 5.0 roller motor and put Gt40 heads on it.. for 1500 it will kill the 289 all day long..
low mile 5.0 motor 5-700.. GT40 heads in good cond 400.. ed curtis custom grind roller cam 300- roller rockers 200.. good reliable 300 hp motor..
put a price limit on it.. you can put alum heads on the roller motor and save 50 lbs but not gain Hp unless you do more work to engine..
oh and sportsroof69 i like the sig file LOL
. my original suggestions still stand on a early style block tho
althought IMO i would toss the 289 get a late model 5.0 roller motor and put Gt40 heads on it.. for 1500 it will kill the 289 all day long..
low mile 5.0 motor 5-700.. GT40 heads in good cond 400.. ed curtis custom grind roller cam 300- roller rockers 200.. good reliable 300 hp motor..
put a price limit on it.. you can put alum heads on the roller motor and save 50 lbs but not gain Hp unless you do more work to engine..
oh and sportsroof69 i like the sig file LOL
I don't want to get rid of my engine or start all over with another engine. I'm not trying to be cheap, but I also don't want to spend money where I don't need to. I have a rebuilt engine with low miles, so I'm happy to keep it. I just want to freshen it up with a 4v conversion and I know my heads are a choke point between the intake and exhaust (well...once I have headers they will be).
Part of my problem is I don't understand the nuances involved with all the different issues associated with the different types of cylinder heads. I get the basics, but the details get me confused...just not my area of experience. That's one reason why I want a completely assembled set that I just have to install.
The TFS 170's (and the others I'm sure) come with different options of chamber size: 58 or 61 and then different lock degree (don't understand that), rocker size, max lift, single or dual spring, etc. Put all that together and I don't know how to make a choice. Overall, they seem like they would be great, especially considering I wouldn't have to worry about piston clearance (since I'm not sure which pistons I have)...I just don't know how to make a good decision. Here's the search results from summit (though the track heat wouldn't be for me):
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...antity/Sold-as-a-pair/?keyword=trick+flow+170
I could buy jdub's but I could just get my original heads ported for the same. I agree that AFR 185s are too much for my needs. If I had the cash to spend and didn't already have a fresh engine I'd get a crate engine. I'm not familiar with the e7 heads so I'll have to do some research. So far the list is:
-TFS 170
-AFR 165
-Machine the stock heads
-jdub's set
-e7 ??? ???
Keep the conversation going folks. I appreciate the education.
Part of my problem is I don't understand the nuances involved with all the different issues associated with the different types of cylinder heads. I get the basics, but the details get me confused...just not my area of experience. That's one reason why I want a completely assembled set that I just have to install.
The TFS 170's (and the others I'm sure) come with different options of chamber size: 58 or 61 and then different lock degree (don't understand that), rocker size, max lift, single or dual spring, etc. Put all that together and I don't know how to make a choice. Overall, they seem like they would be great, especially considering I wouldn't have to worry about piston clearance (since I'm not sure which pistons I have)...I just don't know how to make a good decision. Here's the search results from summit (though the track heat wouldn't be for me):
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...antity/Sold-as-a-pair/?keyword=trick+flow+170
I could buy jdub's but I could just get my original heads ported for the same. I agree that AFR 185s are too much for my needs. If I had the cash to spend and didn't already have a fresh engine I'd get a crate engine. I'm not familiar with the e7 heads so I'll have to do some research. So far the list is:
-TFS 170
-AFR 165
-Machine the stock heads
-jdub's set
-e7 ??? ???
Keep the conversation going folks. I appreciate the education.
With the TW170s, you get the benefit of larger valves, without cutting the pistons. They have a better cross section, come with much better hardware, and rotate the valves to unshroud the intake valve from the cylinder wall, which makes them work better on stock blocks. They are most definetly not too much head for your engine. In fact they're perfect for that type of engine.
I would buy a nice set of TFS or AFR and grow into them. You wont have to buy a new set if you decide to go in a different direction with your car.
AFR 165 is a hell of a head for a mild 302, I recommend them.
I would run an Edelbrock RPM intake thought to take advantage of the head without any significant loss in torque.
Matched with a mild cam it'll be a mellow monster compared to what it was
I would run an Edelbrock RPM intake thought to take advantage of the head without any significant loss in torque.
Matched with a mild cam it'll be a mellow monster compared to what it was
If you buy AFR, buy bare castings so you can put good valves and springs in them because the ones they come with aren't very good. If you're going to spend that kind of money, the TW is much more capable. If you are looking at AFR 165s, I'd just recommend getting GT40s. You wont see much power difference, an the GT40s are much cheaper.
I dont agree at all.If you buy AFR, buy bare castings so you can put good valves and springs in them because the ones they come with aren't very good. If you're going to spend that kind of money, the TW is much more capable. If you are looking at AFR 165s, I'd just recommend getting GT40s. You wont see much power difference, an the GT40s are much cheaper.
Not even the best GT40 variant flows as much as an AFR 165, the 165 flows 250/191 out of the box.
Compared to the Trick flow, to make those numbers, you need a bigger intake port which he wont need or want with the setup he has.
I have seen these 165s do some great things, 185s even better, but you need a motor that wants the larger intake port, his motor will do far better with the fast 165 port
I greatly appreciate the debate folks. I did a ton of reading all over the internet last night. I keep coming back to the TW170s, but the version with the CNC'd combustion chamber (as compared to their fast as cast version). Honestly, I'm sure I'd be happy with the AFR165's as well, but the TW170s seem to offer just a bit more room for anything I might do in the future...though I don't plan on anything (he says as he looks at the pile of parts in the corner). Based purely on my readings the GT40s aren't an option.
So now...do I get the 58cc or 61cc size? I'm trying to understand the nuances here, so doesn't this affect my compression?
Link to the 58cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M58&autoview=sku
Link to the 61cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M61&autoview=sku
Do you see any issues in the specs I should be aware of?
Oh, I finally found a previous thread with my engine info...minus the type of piston unfortunately.
Bore .030, Rods .010, Mains .010
It has a Bullet Cam #310000 with the following specs:
Lift: 461/484
Duration: 262/272
Lobe: 110
@.050 207/217
So now...do I get the 58cc or 61cc size? I'm trying to understand the nuances here, so doesn't this affect my compression?
Link to the 58cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M58&autoview=sku
Link to the 61cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M61&autoview=sku
Do you see any issues in the specs I should be aware of?
Oh, I finally found a previous thread with my engine info...minus the type of piston unfortunately.
Bore .030, Rods .010, Mains .010
It has a Bullet Cam #310000 with the following specs:
Lift: 461/484
Duration: 262/272
Lobe: 110
@.050 207/217
That TW 170 will be a good head, I haven't used them but looking closer its very close to the AFR 165 in flow, and with the 170 cc intake port it will have good movementI greatly appreciate the debate folks. I did a ton of reading all over the internet last night. I keep coming back to the TW170s, but the version with the CNC'd combustion chamber (as compared to their fast as cast version). Honestly, I'm sure I'd be happy with the AFR165's as well, but the TW170s seem to offer just a bit more room for anything I might do in the future...though I don't plan on anything (he says as he looks at the pile of parts in the corner). Based purely on my readings the GT40s aren't an option.
So now...do I get the 58cc or 61cc size? I'm trying to understand the nuances here, so doesn't this affect my compression?
Link to the 58cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M58&autoview=sku
Link to the 61cc: http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51410002-M61&autoview=sku
Do you see any issues in the specs I should be aware of?
Oh, I finally found a previous thread with my engine info...minus the type of piston unfortunately.
Bore .030, Rods .010, Mains .010
It has a Bullet Cam #310000 with the following specs:
Lift: 461/484
Duration: 262/272
Lobe: 110
@.050 207/217
and yes, you pick your chamber based on compression. if you can find out which pistons, or even take a picture we can figure it out
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
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