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Discussion Starter #1
Alright guys I am getting frustrated again.

I have a 302 with the Edelbrock Performer cam, AFR 185 heads ( yea yea yea,,, too big I know). Edelbrock Air Gap intake with headers.
Ok I have a Holley 600cfm Carb Electric Choke 4360 ( Im guessing the number)
SO here is the deal, When it holds its tune I hit the gas pedal 1 time activet the carb and it starts right up, I wait for the car to reach Operating temp throw it in gear and the car goes. However once i stop and hang out somewhere for a while getting it to startup again is not that easy I usually have to pump the gas pedal.

I have heard that Holleys are great with Ford engines, but that they are notorious for not holding a tune.Is this info accurate. Should I just go out and get an Edelbrock and be done with it?
 

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Fake news.... jk.... I've run Carter, quadrojets, edelbrock, holley, and currently run QFT. All have their pro/cons. Sounds like your choke and butterfly adjustment is off. Two things, you need to set the choke rich/lean adjust, but make sure it's doesn't have too much tension. Too much tension on the choke spring and it'll push the choke partially closed after its warm. You also need to adjust the choke butterfly on the top of the primary so it fully opens when warm, and only closes leaving 1/16 to 1/32" open when closed. The adj is on the opposite side of the choke. Of all those carbs, holley and qft are hands down the best perf carbs when properly tuned. Spend some $ and get a holley tuning book, $ well spent. Understanding a carb and its individual circuits will help you understand all carbs. This is assuming all other parts are working, your idle a/f adj is accurate, your accell pump is working, etc. Next time you drive, and stop, before you start the car, dont touch anything, pop the hood and pull the air cleaner and look at the carb. Is the choke partially closed? Is the choke open? Do you smell allot of fuel or see wet fuel in the throat. Is it totally dry, no fuel smell? Let us know what you find.
 

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Maybe you have vapor lock.
 

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While I'm not a Holley fan, advice that X brand of carb doesn't hold it's tune is usually given by people who don't know what they are talking about. Once set, any carburator should run consistent unless you're going to a area with vastly different temperature or altitude.

A carburator doesn't have a sealed fuel system under pressure. As a result the fuel in the fuel bowls can and will boil off leaving the carburator empty of gas that needs to be refilled. And this will only happen when you crank the engine. I understand too that today's gas with ethenol has a lower boiling point then of gas years ago. On my 66 I would also have a hard time restarting after the engine had been running. However after I replaced my points with a Duraspark hot starting became vastly easier.

On a side comment. I'm not exactly agreeing heads are too big. If you look at modern factory engines at how big and how much they flow are better then a lot of race oriented heads of years past. The problem with big heads not working on small motors I say is due to wrong cam timing. Take the Ford Boss 302 and the Chevrolet Z28 302. I've never driven either but the Z28 had a reputation of poor low end torque. The Z28 302 was basically GM using existing parts to build the 302. A 350 LT with a 283 crank. The cam was the same cam used in the high performance 350. The B302 on the other hand was a totally unique purpose built motor. It was the first motor with the canted valves. It's camshaft wasn't something off the shelf. It was designed to work with the canted valve heads on a 302 displacement. I read when Ford was designing the B302 they were appalled at how poorly the Z28 ran at low RPM and wanted the B302 to run better. I had spoken to someone I know who had driven a 69 Boss. I had asked him how the low end was. He said it was good. The big problem with Ford's and big heads are aftermarket camshafts that are designed around Chevrolet port size and smaller diameter tappets and not larger Ford tappets and Ford port requirements. It's not that the ports are too big for a small motor, you just have to be more careful of cam timing for any specific combination. Get a custom ground cam is my feeling.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys all great advice that i will try, groho. The carb cant possibly be poorly adjusted I did it myself , lol. I will take it for a drive this afternoon and report back the results
@1ofAMillion+ may have been the wrong shoes and pantyhose. I will check the classifieds to see if the have the correct Holley starting shoes

@bmgcg dont believe its vapor lock but that is an option I had considered before,

@Huskinhano I agree i dont think my heads are too big either, WIth my other upgrades, However everytime I post something and include my setup ,,, somebody always says, "those heads are too big" and then side tracks the conversation. I didnt want that to happen in this post
 

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Perhaps you missed “1ofAmillion”‘s point .. I’m going go out on a limb here, that his point was how one starts these old carb’d cars. Whether you wear, heels, pumps or loafers, the start procedure is the same.
 

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stop and hang out somewhere for a while getting it to startup again is not that easy I usually have to pump the gas pedal.
If it has an electric choke, it may be cooling off and closing the flap causing a rich condition. Ford used to run a heater hose against the choke housing to help prevent this problem. You may need to set the choke to a leaner setting during warmer weather to reduce this issue.


I have heard that Holleys are great with Ford engines, but that they are notorious for not holding a tune.Is this info accurate. Should I just go out and get an Edelbrock and be done with it?
Not at all. I have carbs that I haven't touched in years that run perfectly fine. Then again, I drove carbureted vehicles for many years as daily drivers, so my viewpoint of what is acceptable is different. Much of the "doesn't hold a tune" BS is because people don't understand how carburetors function best, within a specific temperature range. An open element air cleaner is the best way to screw up a carburetor.

By all means, if you'd like your hot start problems to get worse, get an Edelbrock.
 

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Not "vapor lock" but, rather "percolation". Heat from the engine is warming the fuel in the float bowls to a point close to vaporizing, the gaseous product escapes from the bowls, immediately cools and condenses and drops into the intake manifold plenum. If you try and start the car before the liquid evaporates you end up with a "flooded" engine, requiring you to hold the throttle to the floor to let in enough air to "clear" out the rich mixture.

Poor fuel quality and increased levels of ethanol don't help. Also, this time of year is when refineries are switching from "winter gas" to "summer gas"... the winter formulation vaporizes at a lower temperature to help cold weather operation... which also can cause issues. Excessive under-hood heat management doesn't help, either. Late ignition timing and/or vacuum advance inoperative at idle, uncoated headers, excessive use of rubber/flexible fuel line hose in the engine compartment... all these add to the mix.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not "vapor lock" but, rather "percolation". Heat from the engine is warming the fuel in the float bowls to a point close to vaporizing, the gaseous product escapes from the bowls, immediately cools and condenses and drops into the intake manifold plenum. If you try and start the car before the liquid evaporates you end up with a "flooded" engine, requiring you to hold the throttle to the floor to let in enough air to "clear" out the rich mixture.

Poor fuel quality and increased levels of ethanol don't help. Also, this time of year is when refineries are switching from "winter gas" to "summer gas"... the winter formulation vaporizes at a lower temperature to help cold weather operation... which also can cause issues. Excessive under-hood heat management doesn't help, either. Late ignition timing and/or vacuum advance inoperative at idle, uncoated headers, excessive use of rubber/flexible fuel line hose in the engine compartment... all these add to the mix.
so what does help. I live in Los Angeles the weather isnt that extreme. I just want to be able to reliably start my car. I only use 91 octane gas.
So what do I need to change n the engine/carb . COme n Woodchuck dont leave me hanging lol
 

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Got a photo of your engine compartment with the air cleaner removed? Are you running adequate spark advance? Vacuum advance plumbed to manifold vacuum or ported vacuum? Has it always run this way? If not, when did it start?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok I am finally posting some pics, the honeydew list got really long today.
This problem has been going on for a while, Previously I didnt even have the electric chole connected, because connecting it gave me these issues. I watched the Holley video, read the How to tune a holley carb, I set the choke to idle at 15-1600. One it warms up to 180 degrees I hit the gas pedal and it kicks down to 900rpm. I have a Edelbrock Performer carb with a 2600 stall torque converter. 900rpm seems to be the sweet spot if it idles at 600 or below it shuts off.
The pic of the carb is sitting in the garage all day it was not started at all.
I thought Vapor lock may have been an issue before, so I bought some wraps to put on the headers.
I think I covered everything.
Oh yea I am an aquarius I like long walks on the beach and rasberry sorbet....
 

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Can't really see much.... looks like a "universal" Holley. Guessing you have a rubber fuel line from pump to carb. That can be part of the problem. What do you have for a spacer underneath? A photo a bit farther back that shows the entire top of the engine will help....
 
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