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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I just installed a 351W bored .060 over into my 68 coupe. Just out of curiosity, since I PROBABLY don't have the funds for it right now (I guess we'll see :biggrin:), how much in theory would it cost me to turn it into a 414 stroker? I saw a forum about doing a similar project to a chevy 350, but I couldn't seem to find a reasonable answer. Just ballpark here-If I were to drive it up to the shop and just say "Bring it back stroked out" pretty much, how much am I looking at price wise? And how much would I save if I removed the engine and stripped it down myself for a machine shop to do it? Thanks

-Jaydon
 

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Well, you can get a 408 stroker kit from Summit for $1100...assume $500 in machine work or so for the block plus whatever they charge for teardown and assembly...might be able to do it for $2600...but that doesnt even touch the heads(aside from maybe cleaning) and its an exercise in futility if you don't put work into the heads...whether thats aftermarket aluminum or reworked iron heads....all in I wouldnt expect to get away for less than $5000 for a 408...other stoker kits north of 400ci will likely be more. You are approaching this the wrong way though...first you need to find out what the purpose of the car is(street, dragstrip, show car, road race, etc) then determine your goal for the car and the MINIMUM amount of power needed to reach that goal...and then and only then should you choose the method to get there. You might be be able to get 450-500HP out of 408 stroked 351w for $5000...but you could make the same power with a couple of turbos on a stock block for less than $4000(significantly less if you know how to build your own turbo system and have some fab skills)
 

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Thanks for the insight! I guess I'll have to think about it a bit more. Mostly I just want it to be my driver with some serious power. I eventually want to get it to at least 500-550HP, and anything upwards of that is bonus. I'm not doing any drag/strip racing, but I do wanna make people pee a little when I step on the gas. I don't know anything really about building my own turbo system so that's also something I'd have to bring it into a shop for.
 

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I used the Eagle Rotating assembly with the cast crank. Depending on the year of your block there are two different rod lengths. You can also upgrade to the forged crank.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/brand/eagle-specialty-products/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/piston-and-ring-oversize-in/0-060-in/actual-engine-displacement/6-8l-414?N=actual-engine-displacement:6-8l-414&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Not sure this is what you want for a pressurized setup but it works great for a street machine.

I did not have to do any machining on my block. You do have to have it balanced, so I would choose that option and them Eagle do it and ship it to you rather than having to send it all back out to have it done.

I did port my cast heads installed a Comp Cam's 280H (if I had to do it over I'd do a hydraulic roller) and am running JBA shorties w/2.25" BB exhaust for better breathing. There are a few other minor things done as well and it makes a lot of bottom end torque.

[ame]https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=17[/ame]

[ame]https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=53[/ame]
 

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Thanks for the insight! I guess I'll have to think about it a bit more. Mostly I just want it to be my driver with some serious power. I eventually want to get it to at least 500-550HP, and anything upwards of that is bonus. I'm not doing any drag/strip racing, but I do wanna make people pee a little when I step on the gas. I don't know anything really about building my own turbo system so that's also something I'd have to bring it into a shop for.
Dude, my mostly stock GT40P engine in a 65 coupe makes me pee a little when I nail the gas, of course I was used to a D code 289 but still.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I used the Eagle Rotating assembly with the cast crank. Depending on the year of your block there are two different rod lengths. You can also upgrade to the forged crank. Not sure this is what you want for a pressurized setup but it works great for a street machine.

I did not have to do any machining on my block. You do have to have it balanced, so I would choose that option and them Eagle do it and ship it to you rather than having to send it all back out to have it done.

I did port my cast heads installed a Comp Cam's 280H (if I had to do it over I'd do a hydraulic roller) and am running JBA shorties w/2.25" BB exhaust for better breathing. There are a few other minor things done as well and it makes a lot of bottom end torque.

https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=17

https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=53
The block I have is an '83. And you didn't have to machine the block, but you added more displacement? Or same displacement but better crank/rods/pistons? Sorry I am a car newbie, barely have done my first engine swap lol. I've heard of Eagle before though. I also have the stock heads so I'm thinking of just upgrading those entirely to new ones. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Dude, my mostly stock GT40P engine in a 65 coupe makes me pee a little when I nail the gas, of course I was used to a D code 289 but still.
lol I'd probably do that with my new setup too (Once I get it back from getting an AOD swapped in :( ) But I really haven't gotten to DRIVE it in about 6 months. It's not only the constant hunger for more power than necessary, but also kind of a d**k measuring competition with my dad who has his '51 chevy shortbed with an 6.0L LQ4 in it lol. And I don't know if I'd have the ability to do it now per say, but just for a fun hypothetical to dream about
 

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The block I have is an '83. And you didn't have to machine the block, but you added more displacement? Or same displacement but better crank/rods/pistons? Sorry I am a car newbie, barely have done my first engine swap lol. I've heard of Eagle before though. I also have the stock heads so I'm thinking of just upgrading those entirely to new ones. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them.
Sorry, forgot the Summit link in my previous post. I added it and will post it here: https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/brand/eagle-specialty-products/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/piston-and-ring-oversize-in/0-060-in/actual-engine-displacement/6-8l-414?N=actual-engine-displacement:6-8l-414&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Do you understand what stroking a motor is/does? Mine is a 69 351w short deck. I used the Eagle 408 stroker 0.060 over kit (414ci actual) and it did not require any machining of the block other than boring it to 4.060. This is similuar to what you are talking about. I've heard the AFR 190 heads work good on a 351 stroker.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Sorry, forgot the Summit link in my previous post. I added it and will post it here: https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/brand/eagle-specialty-products/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/piston-and-ring-oversize-in/0-060-in/actual-engine-displacement/6-8l-414?N=actual-engine-displacement:6-8l-414&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Do you understand what stroking a block is/does? Mine is a 69 351w tall deck. I used the Eagle 408 stroker 0.060 over kit (414ci actual) and it did not require any machining of the block other than boring it to 4.060. This is similuar to what you are talking about. I've heard the AFR 190 heads work good on a 351 stroker.
Hm. I must not know exactly from my self taught knowledge lol. As far as I understood I'd have to get it machined to fit a bigger crank for a longer stroke, but I must be wrong. Again I apologize for the lack of knowledge, still new to the hobby. I don't mean to waste time so I apologize. But I do appreciate the help! So since I'm already bored .060 over I'd be set to throw in a rotating assembly for a stroker? Or am I just getting myself more lost? lol, thanks in advance.

-Jaydon

EDIT: I just realized you put a hyperlink into what stroking an engine means. Now I understand a LOT more that I was wrong lol. Thanks!
 

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Hm. I must not know exactly from my self taught knowledge lol. As far as I understood I'd have to get it machined to fit a bigger crank for a longer stroke, but I must be wrong. Again I apologize for the lack of knowledge, still new to the hobby. I don't mean to waste time so I apologize. But I do appreciate the help! So since I'm already bored .060 over I'd be set to throw in a rotating assembly for a stroker? Or am I just getting myself more lost? lol, thanks in advance.

-Jaydon

EDIT: I just realized you put a hyperlink into what stroking an engine means. Now I understand a LOT more that I was wrong lol. Thanks!
No problem. Read up on stroking here: https://dustrunnersauto.com/what-is-a-stroker-motor/

You would need a kit for the 9.500 in. deck height block. The 69-70's had a 9.480 in. deck height.

I'd suggest when you are ready, call Summit and make sure the rotating kit you are interested in matches your block and ask if it requires machining or not. My 69 block did not require any machining to fit the Eagle 407/414 kit in.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hm. I must not know exactly from my self taught knowledge lol. As far as I understood I'd have to get it machined to fit a bigger crank for a longer stroke, but I must be wrong. Again I apologize for the lack of knowledge, still new to the hobby. I don't mean to waste time so I apologize. But I do appreciate the help! So since I'm already bored .060 over I'd be set to throw in a rotating assembly for a stroker? Or am I just getting myself more lost? lol, thanks in advance.

-Jaydon

EDIT: I just realized you put a hyperlink into what stroking an engine means. Now I understand a LOT more that I was wrong lol. Thanks!
No problem. Read up on stroking here: https://dustrunnersauto.com/what-is-a-stroker-motor/

You would need a kit for the 9.500 in. deck height block. The 69-70's had a 9.480 in. deck height.

I'd suggest when you are ready, call Summit and make sure the rotating kit you are interested in matches your block and ask if it requires machining or not. My 69 block did not require any machining to fit the Eagle 407/414 kit in.
Awesome. Thank you so much for all the help! I’m excited to see where I can go with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I used the Eagle Rotating assembly with the cast crank. Depending on the year of your block there are two different rod lengths. You can also upgrade to the forged crank.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/brand/eagle-specialty-products/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/piston-and-ring-oversize-in/0-060-in/actual-engine-displacement/6-8l-414?N=actual-engine-displacement:6-8l-414&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Not sure this is what you want for a pressurized setup but it works great for a street machine.

I did not have to do any machining on my block. You do have to have it balanced, so I would choose that option and them Eagle do it and ship it to you rather than having to send it all back out to have it done.

I did port my cast heads installed a Comp Cam's 280H (if I had to do it over I'd do a hydraulic roller) and am running JBA shorties w/2.25" BB exhaust for better breathing. There are a few other minor things done as well and it makes a lot of bottom end torque.

[ame]https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=17[/ame]

[ame]https://youtu.be/6YUtbF2YBp4?t=53[/ame]
okay last question I promise. But you were talking about getting it balanced, and I’m not 100% sure what that means or what you were trying to say by having Eagle do it and ship it to me
 

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Thanks for the insight! I guess I'll have to think about it a bit more. Mostly I just want it to be my driver with some serious power. I eventually want to get it to at least 500-550HP, and anything upwards of that is bonus. I'm not doing any drag/strip racing, but I do wanna make people pee a little when I step on the gas. I don't know anything really about building my own turbo system so that's also something I'd have to bring it into a shop for.
300 wheel HP(maybe a little more) in a 67-68 coupe will likely put you into the 12s in the quarter with a good driver....that's as fast as a Dodge Viper(earlier ones anyway). Most average people will "pee a little" with that type of speed. Regardless of what your goals are...do yourself a favor and do the build yourself...it doesnt matter if you have never built an engine before...there is nothing harder about rebuilding an engine than replacing an alternator...its all just turning bolts. The difference is that rebuilding an engine requires a lot of measurements for clearances...which is tedious, but not hard...and you are much better off knowing how to do it for the future. Same thing if you went the turbocharging route...do it yourself...you dont have to fabricate anything going that route...you can find many bolt up parts...it just requires research. Some things like machine work you cant do yourself...some fabrication you may not have the tools to do...but everything else you can do yourself, the more you know the better off you are when it comes to cars...especially modifying them. Dont be afraid to do it just because you never have before...this stuff willpower and research to accomplish more than anything else.
 

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Thanks for the insight! I guess I'll have to think about it a bit more. Mostly I just want it to be my driver with some serious power. I eventually want to get it to at least 500-550HP, and anything upwards of that is bonus. I'm not doing any drag/strip racing, but I do wanna make people pee a little when I step on the gas. I don't know anything really about building my own turbo system so that's also something I'd have to bring it into a shop for.

With 500 hp, how will you get it to hook without a narrowed rear. You’re also looking at a pretty upgraded trans, subframe, braking package.

That’s a lot of hp for a 50 yr old car that still has ANYTHING that hasn’t been upgraded; suspension and steering included.
 

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With 500 hp, how will you get it to hook without a narrowed rear. You’re also looking at a pretty upgraded trans, subframe, braking package.

That’s a lot of hp for a 50 yr old car that still has ANYTHING that hasn’t been upgraded; suspension and steering included.
It's not hard. See sig.
 

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okay last question I promise. But you were talking about getting it balanced, and I’m not 100% sure what that means or what you were trying to say by having Eagle do it and ship it to me
Ask all the questions you want, that is why we are here. Leat ill we ask you to stop. >:)

What happens when you put new tires on your car, you need to have them balanced or you by end up with a bit of vibration when driving. When engine parts are made, they are not all the same. 8 rods that look the same, may have different rotational weight, and this needs to be corrected. The crank shaft in a kit like this needs to be balanced for the flexplate/flywheel and harmonic balancer.

As to who does it? You can buy a kit from Summit, have them ship it to you, and then take all the parts to a local shop that does it, or maybe even have all the parts shipped out to a shop that does it. Eagle offers to do it when you make the purchase. I believe you need to add a Flexplate/flywheel and harmonic to your purchase, and they will do it all before shipping it to you. You get it ready to assemble. I sent mine out and spent another $100 just in shipping the parts back and forth. Had I known I'd have had Eagle do it.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/05/more-power-more-problems-balancing-rotating-assemblies-in-the-modern-day-engine-shop/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0803-engine-balancing/

 

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With 500 hp, how will you get it to hook without a narrowed rear. You’re also looking at a pretty upgraded trans, subframe, braking package.

That’s a lot of hp for a 50 yr old car that still has ANYTHING that hasn’t been upgraded; suspension and steering included.
I've not had mine on the dyno or had a proper pass on a track yet, but I'm hoping mine will be at least in the 425hp range. Though I have done some minor upgrades to the suspension and auto trans, its still all stock type. Traction Master Under rides is all that is in the rear. No subframes. I've got a set of Nitto 555 drag radials that still need their first burnout to warm them up, but I am not worried about the car going down the track. I know, I've spent some extra $$ on a show car, but, I drive this show car, and sometimes drive it hard, as you can see in the video's. :grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
okay last question I promise. But you were talking about getting it balanced, and I’m not 100% sure what that means or what you were trying to say by having Eagle do it and ship it to me
Ask all the questions you want, that is why we are here. Leat ill we ask you to stop. <img src="http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/images/Vintage-Mustang_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />

What happens when you put new tires on your car, you need to have them balanced or you by end up with a bit of vibration when driving. When engine parts are made, they are not all the same. 8 rods that look the same, may have different rotational weight, and this needs to be corrected. The crank shaft in a kit like this needs to be balanced for the flexplate/flywheel and harmonic balancer.

As to who does it? You can buy a kit from Summit, have them ship it to you, and then take all the parts to a local shop that does it, or maybe even have all the parts shipped out to a shop that does it. Eagle offers to do it when you make the purchase. I believe you need to add a Flexplate/flywheel and harmonic to your purchase, and they will do it all before shipping it to you. You get it ready to assemble. I sent mine out and spent another $100 just in shipping the parts back and forth. Had I known I'd have had Eagle do it.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/05/more-power-more-problems-balancing-rotating-assemblies-in-the-modern-day-engine-shop/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0803-engine-balancing/

Oh okay that makes a lot more sense. It sounds like Eagle makes it pretty seamless as far as the conversion can go, so I’ll probably go with them when I get it done. I’ll call them when I’m ready and see if I need to machine the block as well (I’d prefer not to but we’ll see)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
With 500 hp, how will you get it to hook without a narrowed rear. You’re also looking at a pretty upgraded trans, subframe, braking package.

That’s a lot of hp for a 50 yr old car that still has ANYTHING that hasn’t been upgraded; suspension and steering included.
I've not had mine on the dyno or had a proper pass on a track yet, but I'm hoping mine will be at least in the 425hp range. Though I have done some minor upgrades to the suspension and auto trans, its still all stock type. Traction Master Under rides is all that is in the rear. No subframes. I've got a set of Nitto 555 drag radials that still need their first burnout to warm them up, but I am not worried about the car going down the track. I know, I've spent some extra $$ on a show car, but, I drive this show car, and sometimes drive it hard, as you can see in the video's. <img src="http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/images/Vintage-Mustang_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
Suspension is an upgrade I’ve planned on doing before considering this upgrade. And again, I’m not necessarily taking this thing to the strip with slicks or anything, I just want like said here, a driver that I can “drive hard”. Steering is another upgrade I already had planned. I’m currently getting a semi-beefed up AOD put in as we speak so thats already been accounted for as well. I want to do a new rear with posi once I
burn this one out lol
 

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With that hp, the weakest link will be the first to break. Without slicks, it’ll certainly be the tires, which will save everything else from damage. :wink:
 
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