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Discussion Starter #1
Being in the minority has always suited me so here goes.

I am finally getting it ! Some people here think this forum is a democracy, where everyone is equal and everyone's voice carries the same weight.

WRONG

This is a place where you came to get your car fixed by someone that knows more than you do. So what if the knowledgeable guy or gal is gruff, or tells you to do a search first ? Hasn't everyone had a "gruff" or worse, teacher, professor, boss or co-worker that knew more than you did ? Well I have, and I took some HARMLESS abuse in order to learn what I wanted to learn in order to benefit ME. I didn't whine about how "snarky" my mentor was, if he or she was. I just learned what I needed to know and was grateful that someone existed that could bail me out of a problem I couldn't figure out on my own.

Let's see, of all the posts Barl, or any one else of his knowledge level has made ( I'm obviously not in that group ), what percentage of those posts have been made to help someone out. Just a wild guess, but I'm saying 99.9% is very close. And of that 99.9% roughly 99.9% were right on target, mission accomplished. Now take away all the grumpy old bastards, and now everyone is sweet as pie, but no one that knows anything is around anymore. Have fun with that problem now. Sure you'll still get some answers, 100 different answers, all conflicting, and only one or two of them helpful, but which two ?

So by being thin skinned, someone doesn't like the gruff yet correct answer, and calls out Bartl for being a grumpy old bastard, which no one disputes, but saying it gets you nowhere. Are you going to call Einstein a grumpy as*hole when he explains the theory of relativity to you for the 100th time. Who wins, and who loses here when you run off the old farts that know more than anyone else ?

I'd be nowhere if I'd told my gruff teachers, professors, and mentors to go fu*k themselves every time they acted like they were fed up with me when I pestered them for help. And nowhere is exactly where this forum will be if "being nice" becomes more important than experience and knowledge. If you shoot the messenger, you're never going to get the message.

Z
 

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Z- was thinking maybe there should be something like this mandatory in all sig lines...?

Disclaimer- PLEASE READ. Any and all comments made herein and forthwith are those of the writer and constitute views and opinions of said individual. These comments should not be taken out of context and misconstrued in any way shape or form such that any or all other individuals should take any kind of offense or feel 'snarky' to the point that they feel it necessary to respond in a defensive demeanor or retaliate with direct or pointless banter... unless of course you are in fact a da, asking a da question and not expecting to get a correct and helpful answer in the first place!
 

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Just some guy
67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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I have noted for years at work the grumpy old bastards were always the go-to guys to find out what to do when you were stuck or needed to fix what you just f##ked up by not knowing what you were doing. Now that I've come up to where I've trained a few apprentices I know why those old guys were about always grumpy or at least mildly annoyed by all the babysitting they had to do. They've called me the grouchy old guy many a time. Partly because instead of just giving them easy answers I tend to give them clues so they have to use their own hands and brains. Which makes me all mean and horrible until they've been working out in the wild a few years and finally figure out what it was I was up to.
 

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the search function serves a purpose. but constantly referring some to it does not.

in reality everything has been discussed so why not just close the forum to any new post and all can use the search function from now on end.

the issue is topics get stale. new technology arise, new methods of a fix or tool is discovered.
or someone may not have the time or patience (like me) to "search around" all day long and may want or need a quick
decisive answer.

The elder statesmen on here have the choice on whether or not to post and rebutle or not, and maybe they just need to exercise more judgement on whom to answer and whom not to and what post will annoy them and to stay out of and what post needs attention.
 

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Maybe we should have our ages in our profiles. Then we could tell who is a grumpy old bastard that we should listen to and not just a grumpy bastard. :)
 

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Well. I'm glad that bullies are among the minority. I come here to get answers, not abuse. Guaranteed you would treat me with respect in a face-to-face exchange. It doesn't say much about a man's character when he feels entitled to treat others with disrespect from behind the false security of a keyboard.

If you feel the need to abuse somebody, you're probably the same creep who gives it to your wife, your kids, or your dog... and if you're my neighbor, I'll handle it at home.
 

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There's a difference between gruff and mean spirited. To my recollection, I have never seen a mean spirited response here.

But two things are now kind of bothering me.

1. I haven't been yelled at by Pete.
2. I'm wondering if there is something to this whole body wash controversy.


And thank you to anyone who has responded to a question I asked, whether the answer was snarky or not. Your assistance is appreciated.
 

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I am finally getting it ! Some people here think this forum is a democracy, where everyone is equal and everyone's voice carries the same weight.
Z
Everyone IS equal. I live in America and I fought for her freedoms. That said, I think everyone recognizes that some members here have years of experience on their side and with that "veteran" status comes practical knowledge that is invaluable to those of us who enjoy the hobby with a more novice background. Being more experienced doesn't give you the right to treat others disrespectfully, especially when we come to you with questions and we show you the respect that you deserve. Thankfully, a majority of the Mustang "veterans" are happy to share their knowledge without an elitist attitude. Those folks are a credit to the hobby.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Peole have equal protection under the law. But that does not mean people have equality of knowledge, or qualification. The way you say it, everyone is equal, so I could pick 10 forum members at random for my pit crew, and things would work out just the same as if I'd picked the 10 members with the best skills for the job.

Should we all be nice and sweet and lovey-dovey. Sure. But if someone knowledgeable has a difficult personality, I'm not going to let that get in my way of learning all I can from them, and I will wisely refrain from calling them out for not being kissy-kissy enough. I want the knowledge, and I'm going to absorb some harmless antagonistic banter to get it if need be.


Z
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't see anyone on the forum acting "elitist" , although there are several who have an elite level of knowledge. Not once has anyone ever posted something that proclaimed themselves to be above the rest of us. But it's easy to make up a short list of the most helpful people here and give them the respect they have EARNED by giving giving giving just for the satisfaction of giving. If that giving is elitist behavior, then we need more of it.

Z
 

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Peole have equal protection under the law. But that does not mean people have equality of knowledge, or qualification. The way you say it, everyone is equal, so I could pick 10 forum members at random for my pit crew, and things would work out just the same as if I'd picked the 10 members with the best skills for the job.

Should we all be nice and sweet and lovey-dovey. Sure. But if someone knowledgeable has a difficult personality, I'm not going to let that get in my way of learning all I can from them, and I will wisely refrain from calling them out for not being kissy-kissy enough. I want the knowledge, and I'm going to absorb some harmless antagonistic banter to get it if need be.


Z
You are mistaken zray. You're trying to put the wrong words in my mouth. zray quote: "The way you say it, everyone is equal, so I could pick 10 forum members at random for my pit crew, and things would work out just the same as if I'd picked the 10 members with the best skills for the job."

You don't have a valid argument. What I ACTUALLY said was: "...I think everyone recognizes that some members here have years of experience on their side and with that "veteran" status comes practical knowledge that is invaluable to those of us who enjoy the hobby with a more novice background. Being more experienced doesn't give you the right to treat others disrespectfully, especially when we come to you with questions and we show you the respect that you deserve. Thankfully, a majority of the Mustang "veterans" are happy to share their knowledge without an elitist attitude. Those folks are a credit to the hobby."

To be clear, I'm not being "snarky" here. I'm simply correcting bad information.
 

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I don't see anyone on the forum acting "elitist" , although there are several who have an elite level of knowledge. Not once has anyone ever posted something that proclaimed themselves to be above the rest of us. But it's easy to make up a short list of the most helpful people here and give them the respect they have EARNED by giving giving giving just for the satisfaction of giving. If that giving is elitist behavior, then we need more of it.

Z
I suppose that depends upon how you interpret the definition of "elitist." From Merriam Webster "elitist - being or characteristic of a person who has an offensive air of superiority and tends to ignore or disdain anyone regarded as inferior"

I consider it elitist behavior when one member "talks down to," condescends to, or belittles a less knowledgeable member.

New members shouldn't have to fear asking questions. Senior members should choose their words with due care, as if they were standing in front of the other person to answer the question.
 
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I qualify for Grumpy Old Fart status.
When I read bartl's response #5 I thought to myself "that doesn't sound like bart". I sincerely hope that he was not suffering from an unseen medical condition such as impending stroke or something similar. I'm hoping that he had just come in from the shop/garage and he left a greasy fingerprint on the refrigerator door when he got himself a cold beverage of choice and sat down at his computer and his wife said "Honey, would you please come over here and wipe your grease off of the door handle".
 

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Being a little gruff is one thing and being mean spirited and belittling to others is two different things and unfortunately I have seen both on here.
What I have found in life is sometimes those old gruff characters are real wells of information. I have also found that those that cross over to belittling others many times don't know near as much as they think they do. I have gone in on forums and Facebook and posted questions and invariably there will be someone who pipes up that anyone that tells me any different is a fool. I almost immediately cross that persons opinion off as useless. And if they try to belittle me for asking a question, it will be a cold day in hell before I ask them another question....then what good is all that knowledge they may have?
 
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