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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I really like the way may car is and I'm usually in the top 3rd of times of the day and Pax. My power steering issues are holding me back at this point. I need power steering because of physical limitations and the fact that anybody remotely competitive in autocross has it, they all also have power brakes.
A few months ago I started throwing belts off the power steering at high "6400 rpm". Replaced a half dozen belts and then the power steering pump. Original pump was rebuilt by Dan and worked fine for almost 2 years. Second pump was a new Lares from NPD pump supposedly improved from the original design from the "most favored nation". The lares pump howls with any steering input and is notchy, I've literally wasted days trying to fix it including trailering the car to a mechanic friends dealership to have half a dozen mechanics offer tips and try to bleed the pump with every trick possible to no avail. So I'm going to have to go with the KRC pump and bracket, both are aluminum so that should shed some pounds. Even with the original pump I would tend to lose power steering on the course for no apparent reason and I run a cooler. The original pump still worked fine on slower < 6000 rpm courses even after it started throwing belts at high speed and rpm Grissom AFB. My other problem is the power steering hoses themselves. My car sits very low and the hoses were in jeopardy of being taken out by the next cone even before I installed the @zray crossmember. Then had to bend the PS hoses down another inch to only rub the crossmember at full lock and now they sit lower than the oil pan. The way the hoses come out of the control valve I don't see any easy way of fabricating custom hoses to solve the issue. I can do the KRC pump and bracket comfortably this winter but am thinking about going R&P for ground clearance and hopefully solve the on and off loss of power steering on the course. I don't care about the potential loss turning radius at this point as it's not a street car. I'm not interested in EPAS because I plan to do hydro-boost on the brakes down the road.

770402
 

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Have you considered changing the pulley sizes so that the pump doesn't spin as fast?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Have you considered changing the pulley sizes so that the pump doesn't spin as fast?
Yes, I'm running the 6" 1985 F-150 pulley. I forgot to mention that, and thank you for the response.
 

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Dimples
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I despise the factory power steering system on our cars. Overboosted leak factories.

Why are you not considering EPAS exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I despise the factory power steering system on our cars. Overboosted leak factories.

Why are you not considering EPAS exactly?
My factory power steering is not over boosted due to the larger 6" F-150 pulley and doesn't leak a drop, and I am 100% happy with the performance on the street. But, that's not were I live these days. No EPAS because I can't work under the dash for more than 30 seconds at a time even with the seat removed due to my back, and I'll eventually need the power steering pump to also supply fluid to a hydro-boost brake booster as funds permit.
 
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Have you considered a R&P setup?

I have no idea how they perform on vintage Mustangs, I just know a lot of people are running them.

Also, have you considered going to a serpentine setup?
 

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Dimples
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My factory power steering is not over boosted due to the larger 6" F-150 pulley and doesn't leak a drop, and I am 100% happy with the performance on the street.
Well congrats on that. That puts you in rare company based on my entirely non-scientific sampling.


No EPAS because I can't work under the dash for more than 30 seconds at a time even with the seat removed due to my back, and I'll eventually need the power steering pump to also supply fluid to a hydro-boost brake booster as funds permit.
I feel you on the back pain thing. I’m sure that’s a factor I haven’t considered on a conscious level that would help explain why I haven’t tackled that yet myself. All the same, I always cave eventually and tough it out.

Is the hydro-boost a way toget power brakes in a low vacuum (hot cam) situation? I have a buddy that had that on a 41 Ford coupe hot rod and it never made sense to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Have you considered a R&P setup?

I have no idea how they perform on vintage Mustangs, I just know a lot of people are running them.

Also, have you considered going to a serpentine setup?
I'm fine with the factory box and the quick steer idler and pitman arms when it works. I'm old school and am getting competitive without torque boxes or subframe connectors. I've driven my fair share of rust belt convertibles over the years. In my original post I said that I would consider a R&P setup if it would eliminate the coming and going of the PS on the track. @Shaun offers the unisteer setup but I don't like how it messes with my adjustable lca setup.
 

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+1 on a serp belt set up,just needs some pulleys and a belt.
 

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I'd like to offer some help. Alas my only suggestion would be EPAS. I had the opportunity to drive @dobrostang 's 66 tho briefly and not in anger the EPAS Felt natural. Sorry can't help I guess
 

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If you were closer, I'd say come wail around the mountain backroads here with my Borgeson setup and see how you like it. I do indeed have a saginaw pump(which I've shimmed for lower pressure) now with CVF serpentine pulleys..

I WILL be on the autocross course here next summer at least twice with it (the two events I planned to attend were cancelled) and let ya know how it does in anger.
 

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If you are thinking about a serpentine setup, I pulled all the brackets and bolts off a late 80’s F-150 and it worked out perfectly. Later when I switched to the Borgeson box i changed out the PS bracket to one of an E-250 that came with a Saginaw pump. The whole set up including the pump cost less than 100

The later Ford pump may solve your problem or find the Saginaw bracket with pump and you’ll be able to use the borgeson kit to adjust the pressure of the pump to suit your needs.

Making up custom lines is pretty easy. I’d recommend using PTFE hoses with AN fittings. That will give you a lot of options with the angles coming out of the pump and slave along with the routing of the line.
 

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Throw a gopro under the hood and see what is happening to your pump during a run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the responses. I’ll look into a serpentine setup but I didn’t care for how some of them move the alternator forward. Unfortunately the problems only happen when racing and I can’t duplicate them on the street.
 

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Is the serpentine setup supposed to address the issue where PS comes and goes that nailbender is seeing while racing or is it to avoid belt throw at higher rpms?

Thanks!
Rob
 

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Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I ran a stock system in autocross for 20 years and NEVER had a problem. I know a guy running the same system on a 69 vette with 275s on road race compound. His system works great. I did run a March underdrive pulley system that not only had a larger pulley for the pump but also had a smaller pulley for the harmonic balancer. Other than that, the entire system was bone stock. The difference may be that you are running a quick steer kit which is overpowering the system in Autocross. You may have to ditch the quick steer until you go RnP. If I had the stomach for a hydraulic pump on my motor, I would go with the system Kelly-H has - 2.5 turns total! Totally jealous!. If you do go RnP, gimme a shot at the quick steer kit, I want to run one with my EPAS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I ran a stock system in autocross for 20 years and NEVER had a problem. I know a guy running the same system on a 69 vette with 275s on road race compound. His system works great. I did run a March underdrive pulley system that not only had a larger pulley for the pump but also had a smaller pulley for the harmonic balancer. Other than that, the entire system was bone stock. The difference may be that you are running a quick steer kit which is overpowering the system in Autocross. You may have to ditch the quick steer until you go RnP. If I had the stomach for a hydraulic pump on my motor, I would go with the system Kelly-H has - 2.5 turns total! Totally jealous!. If you do go RnP, gimme a shot at the quick steer kit, I want to run one with my EPAS.
I think I’ve found the limitations of the stock system and it’s time to move on to r&p. I’m sure the sticky tires and quick steering arms aren’t helping. I’ll give you first crack at the arms when I do. There is going to be a lot of stuff in the for sale section to help fund this project!
 

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Is the serpentine setup supposed to address the issue where PS comes and goes that nailbender is seeing while racing or is it to avoid belt throw at higher rpms?

Thanks!
Rob
I would expect that the serpentine with Saginaw pump would eliminate both issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I talked to a guy named zray? at TCP this afternoon about R&P. I'll be emailing @Shaun this weekend about the Unisteer setup that he sells. Not impressed with what I heard from TCP's zray about sharing the PS pump with Hydro-Boost and the TCP rack. The Unisteer setup requires a higher flow rate than the TCP rack, closer to the requirements of the Hydro-Boost.
Researched the serpentine belt idea but don't think should need to go there for a basic alternator and PS pump setup.
 
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