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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I hear you on your back pain, I know full well what limitations it puts on gear heads. I’m 81 with 5 joint replacements plus a not too successful L4-5 to S1 spinal fusion.
A couple of years ago I did the 200 dollar EPAS mod on my 68 and to be honest, the under dash time was insignificant compared to the the work you will do under there putting in a hydro boost. Front driver seat removal is a must for us back issue guys.
Talk to the guys running autocross with EPAS and listen to what they say about it. Compared to any of the long out dated technology of hydraulic systems EPAS will free up a bit of HP, greatly reduce under hood temps and is virtually maintenance free.
JMO
A little voice in the back of my head keeps telling me EPAS is the way to go. Well, actually it's probably just @dobrostang persistent as a migraine:rolleyes:! At some point I could be running 10 inches or so of tread if the insanity continues to grow, and I'm not confident enough to hack my steering column for a unit out of a 16 year old government motors car in a junkyard. I have been thinking about calling the guys who make this unit DCE EPAS Systems. I realize it could just be a rebuilt unit out of an old Pontiac but it has 55lb/ft of assist.
While I am certainly not an expert, but with an intermittent problem like that my mind immediately goes to a possible air leak. Do you think that during the heating / cooling cycles something in the system is expanding and contracting and allowing air into the system?
The problem didn't show up until the commie pump.
 

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A little voice in the back of my head keeps telling me EPAS is the way to go. Well, actually it's probably just @dobrostang persistent as a migraine:rolleyes:!
The problem didn't show up until the commie pump.
Hey, I'm being very good about not pushing you into EPAS. In fact, did you see my post about your pulley being the wrong size for the belt you are running? that is where I would put my money...

on the EPAS front, I would wait till I put a quick steer kit on mine adn make sure it can handle it. I think it should because the EPAS is out of a car that is 1500 pounds heavier than a Mustang with 235/65/ stock
 

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Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I ran a stock system in autocross for 20 years and NEVER had a problem. I know a guy running the same system on a 69 vette with 275s on road race compound. His system works great. I did run a March underdrive pulley system that not only had a larger pulley for the pump but also had a smaller pulley for the harmonic balancer. Other than that, the entire system was bone stock. The difference may be that you are running a quick steer kit which is overpowering the system in Autocross. You may have to ditch the quick steer until you go RnP. If I had the stomach for a hydraulic pump on my motor, I would go with the system Kelly-H has - 2.5 turns total! Totally jealous!. If you do go RnP, gimme a shot at the quick steer kit, I want to run one with my EPAS.
Refresh my memory....What setup does Kelly_H run?
 

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That is allegedly air trapped in the system. I believe KRC has a bleeding procedure for their pumps. With my commie replacement pump the air would dissipate when the car sat for a while but would reappear again on the first 6000+ rpm burst and last until the car sat for days. I would hope the KRC pump being for racing and all wouldn't do that!
It sounds like the symptoms of cavitation. High RPM = high pressure and flow, a large pressure drop across a restriction causes the fluid to cavitate and form vapor bubbles (air) in the system. Pumps do have maximum RPM's, though with you're pulley it should be under-driven from crank speed ? Cavitation is also exacerbated by high temperatures, so adding a significant cooler ( lake a trans. cooler ) may help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Hey, I'm being very good about not pushing you into EPAS. In fact, did you see my post about your pulley being the wrong size for the belt you are running? that is where I would put my money...

on the EPAS front, I would wait till I put a quick steer kit on mine adn make sure it can handle it. I think it should because the EPAS is out of a car that is 1500 pounds heavier than a Mustang with 235/65/ stock
I knew that would get your attention! I did see your post in the other thread about the pulley. In the little research I've done so far, as long as the degrees of taper on the belts are the same it shouldn't be a problem if there is a difference in the widths as long as it don't bottom out as you mentioned. So I need to get on the Dayco site and get the complete specs on 65 Mustang and 85 F150 power steering belts to see what's what. Sounds like a good New Years day project. I do have the crank pulley for an AC car, that if memory serves is fatter. So maybe, if the 85 F150 and the 65 Mustang AC belts are the same width and taper I might just need to shim the PS assembly forward 3/4" to line up with the AC pulley. Wouldn't that be grand!
The new Lares commie pump is going out for target practice and I'm considering asking Dan if I can send him the Ford pump back for a rebuild / look over to find out if anything is amiss.

It sounds like the symptoms of cavitation. High RPM = high pressure and flow, a large pressure drop across a restriction causes the fluid to cavitate and form vapor bubbles (air) in the system. Pumps do have maximum RPM's, though with you're pulley it should be under-driven from crank speed ? Cavitation is also exacerbated by high temperatures, so adding a significant cooler ( lake a trans. cooler ) may help.
Captivation make sense to me. My last test on commie pump the temps were in the 50s. I have a trans cooler on the power steering that worked fine with the Ford pump
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I did my belt research today.
The 85 F150 pulley takes a belt that is 0.53" wide at a 36º angle.
The stock PS pulley takes a belt that is 0.44" wide at a 36º angle.
The AC pulley on the crank take a 0.53" bely at a 36º angle.

So I could shim the PS pump forward to line up with the AC pulley and run a slightly fatter/bigger belt, but the belt angle of all the pulleys is 36º.
With the current setup with the 6 5/8" crank pulley and 6" PS pulley the PS is overdriven 10%. If I use the crank AC pulley at 6" it will be at 1 to 1. I don't know if that would get too notchy in low speed maneuvers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
So after ignoring the ps problem over the winter i decided to just bite the bullet and get the KRC pump about 3 weeks ago at apparently the same time everybody else did. Done in by the stimulus check spending frenzy again! At least they're buying American made stuff. I ordered from Shaun because I like to support my favorite venders and oh yeah, he was cheaper than anyone else on price! Obviously all these pumps come from KRC but Shaun's preferred supplier did not have the kit for the V belt in stock so he had to order it from KRC. It's been a nightmare for Shaun because they are only open 4 days a week, say they are short on manpower, and seldom answer the phone. Shaun has been persistent but not much you can do and I won't answer the phone or reply to emails. Supposedly it ships this week but I don't think either of us are holding our breath. So this morning I had to remove the never worked Lares pump from NPD and put back on the genuine Ford pump that Dan rebuilt that works fine on the street and on the slower courses but can't handle the speeds at Grissom / Disneyland. To be clear a limitation of the pump design at high rpm and not Dan. The next 2 weekends involve a parking lot and the Tire Rack test track so the OEM pump with the big pulley should be fine. Then I have a week off to hopefully get a KRC pump installed should it show up before the first points event at Grissom.

The Lares China pump cavitates at around 6000 rpm then is super notchy until it sits for a few days. I put the Ford pump on today, turned the steering wheel left and right a few times on the lift before going for a drive and buzzed the motor up 6400 a few times with no cavitation! If I needed a PS pump for the street I'd rely on a rebuild by Dan / Chockostang and not something from the peoples republic.
 

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Following intensely as I fear the higher RPM limitations and leaks of my replacement ford pump once my car is running. Really interested to see how the KRC pump works out (and lines) as the low hanging lines bug the heck out of me.
 

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I am not a fan of racks because It gets rid of the crossmember and z rays crossmember is a huge upgrade on theses cars there’s a guy I follow on Instagram he has a krc pump that he takes to 7 grand without much issues he also has a mike maier steering box that has a 19:1 ratio
 

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If you are throwing belts with an underiven(or is it overdriven? always get them backward) pulley, its an alignment issue. This is no surprise with the way the factory bracket just kinda hangs the pump out there, allowing quicker engine speeds to pull the alignment off...and then the belt goes flying. I have a different suggestion...triangulate the bracket better so it can't flex at high speed and throw the belt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
The China pump is on its way back to NPD and the original pump is back on and worked well Sunday at an autocross on a small low rpm course. Shaun is pursuing KRC on the new pump. The belts are in perfect alignment and the pump is under driven. Hopefully the new pump shows up soon and I can finish the season with it. But just like death and taxes a rack and pinion is most likely my future. Even with the quick pitman and idler arm it’s just too many turns lock to lock on the tighter courses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
The KRC pump finally showed up and weighs less than 6lbs with all brackets and bolts! It will be interesting to see what the Ford pump and steel bracket come in at weight wise. Looks like the KRC pump fits much closer in so a shorter belt and thats a good thing. I'm going to need new pulleys because I have the 6 5/8" AC crank pulley that is overdriving the current 6" pulley and would to the same with the new pump. I will probably get this 5.4" pulley setup.Ford Crank Pulley Small Block 2V (3 Bolt Crank) Not sure if I need a 2 grove WP pulley like I have or a singe groove. That will probably make more sense after I get the pump mounted. I would rather use a single grove WP pulley and run the PS from the crank only to keep the belt as short as possible. I guess I will tear into it after tomorrow's autocross.
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The KRC pump finally showed up and weighs less than 6lbs with all brackets and bolts! It will be interesting to see what the Ford pump and steel bracket come in at weight wise. Looks like the KRC pump fits much closer in so a shorter belt and thats a good thing. I'm going to need new pulleys because I have the 6 5/8" AC crank pulley that is overdriving the current 6" pulley and would to the same with the new pump. I will probably get this 5.4" pulley setup.Ford Crank Pulley Small Block 2V (3 Bolt Crank) Not sure if I need a 2 grove WP pulley like I have or a singe groove. That will probably make more sense after I get the pump mounted. I would rather use a single grove WP pulley and run the PS from the crank only to keep the belt as short as possible. I guess I will tear into it after tomorrow's autocross.
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The krc mounting is a lot better than ford and the old pumps are heavvyyyyyy mine weighed like 15 lbs
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
The krc mounting is a lot better than ford and the old pumps are heavvyyyyyy mine weighed like 15 lbs
Are you running the V belt?
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Yes I was now I’m manual steering
If you don't mind me asking, did you run the PS pump from just the crank pulley or crank and water pump?
 

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If you don't mind me asking, did you run the PS pump from just the crank pulley or crank and water pump?
It was just a street car but it was around the water pully, the guy on Instagram @thatyellow65 has a krc v belt around his water pump that he takes to 7k rpm at autocross events with no issues
 

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I am not a fan of racks because It gets rid of the crossmember and z rays crossmember is a huge upgrade on theses cars there’s a guy I follow on Instagram he has a krc pump that he takes to 7 grand without much issues he also has a mike maier steering box that has a 19:1 ratio
The Unisteer rack mount replaces the crossmember and bolts in using the crossmembers bolts. It's more than capable of replacing the cross member since it''s made from thick steel plate. The down side is that it's much heavier than the OEM or Z Ray cross member.

According to KRC's website, they have a specified RPM that their pumps can run, but exceeding the limit will only eat HP and not provide any additional fluid pumping. 7500 RPM shouldn't be a problem.
To calculate pump RPM use the following formula.
Divide the crank pulley diameter (cp) by the power steering pump pulley diameter (psp), then multiply that answer by maximum engine RPM.
Ex. 4.5"cp ÷ 6.0"psp = 0.75 x 7,200 = 5,400 RPM Pump Speed
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
I tore into it tonight. The Ford pump and bracket came in at 17lbs. I yanked the pulleys to measure the balancer to WP offset and it came in at 3 13/16". CVP says 3 7/8" on their pulley setup and I just happen to have some 1/16" WP pulley shims! I ordered a Eaton pump pressure hose because I can get an adapter to go from it's 5/8"-18? flare to a -6 AN. A -6 90º fitting from the pump should make it plug and play. I will need the double pulleys crank and WP pulleys to make the belts play nice.
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