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I found a complete Windsor, and a Complete Cleveland. All the same guy... he wants 75.00 each, and is within 2 hours of me.... Which one should I buy? I would buy both, but I already have 3 engine in my garage, so there isn't much room left....
 

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buy me the cleveland and give me the heads so i can build a fuel injected clevor :p
 

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Not to make it easy: Buy both, use Windsor bottom end and Cleveland heads. Sell Cleveland block to restorer. And depending on the windsor heads, dump them (small valves, large chamber) or sell them (1.85/1.54 and smaller chamber).
 

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To make your life easier, buy the Windsor....It will fit without a total changeover of your car.....The clevland will take lots more work to get it in and hooked up.....
 

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For me, it would depend on exactly which C & W he has and what I wanted to do with it. I love the looks of a Cleveland but I wouldn't want to deal with a 2V head version. If it was a 4V I would jump on it for $75. If you decide to buy the Cleveland, make sure that it really is a C and not an M. They look alot alike to the untrained eye. M's were never available in Mustangs, are taller, wider, and heavier than C's, and use different mounts and bellhousings. They are not bad engines for trucks and land barges but I personally think it's too much trouble to transplant one to a Mustang.

The W is much easier to find parts for and will fit better in early chassis.
 

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I would buy the Windsor. They are a better street engine and have better oiling system. Built right they will spank a Cleveland on the streeet. There are also more parts available for them.


69 Mach 1 427 Windsor
 

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built right? Build a Cleveland right and it will eat a Windsor alive... WITHOUT aftermarket heads. When you get done with a Windsor, about the only thing left stock is the block... and there are even aftermarket options for THOSE too!

Put a STOCK windsor and a STOCK Cleveland side-by-side, with everythign the same (carb, cam, etc.) and the Cleveland eats it for breakfast. There is a reason that the Clevelands were used in NASCAR and drag racing. There is also another reason that the Windsor design was shelved until the nazi environmentalists cut the nads out from under cars.

As far as the oiling concerns, that is an old wives tale. A vast percentage of Clevelands saw the far side of 100,000 with no problems. Mine was pulled apart at 70k and was found to not need any machining on bores or journals. Yep... crappy oiling there.
 

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Hmmm.. really? Same motor mounts, same bellhousing pattern (and hence same transmissions) as the 302 that he has now....

The only possible concern is going to be headers... but then you would also have that problem with a Windsor too.
 

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If the Cleveland was so great then why is it not still used in Nascar? Clevelands might have been ok for the street with that crappy oiling system but not for racing. I raced them both and would take the Windsor anytime.Oh by they way 70k is nothing.I pulled apart a Windsor that had 148K on it and the crank is still standard. Not to many clevelands made it that far.



69 Mach 1 427 Windsor
 

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WHoa......Canyed valve and Mod9 in the boxing ring!!!!!

I think the Clevelands were better on the top end.....the "Canted Valve" design was good for high rpm breathing, this is why they slapped C heads on W block to make the Boss302.....because the windsor heads of the day "tunnel port" weren't supporting the good airflow the C heads could provide.....

It all depends on what you will do with the car.....

If you want to drive like a maniac and get good take offs....go with a windsor...If you like to drive on the freeway and get good blasts through straightways on tracks...C's are the way to go....

It is all relevant...

I think pricing for parts will also have you going for a Windsor...

Cleveland parts are drying up.....(with exception of the new alum heads offered for a pricey sum)

My buddy has a 351C in his 68 fastback and that puppy pops wheelies (it has aussie heads)

good luck to you
 
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