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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all, I just decided to dump my 351C stuff. Just because it came with my car project doesnt mean I need to use it.....lol. My car was a 302 2V anyway. So I decided to sell all my 351C stuff and look for the perfect small block engine setup.

I want aluminum heads and manifold. So lets hear it - if you were starting from scratch, and had time to look for the parts - what would you build?

I hear peeps say 94 and up 351W block because they are set up for rollers. Is this the best way to go? I guess I am looking for a starting point - the best block. What model/year vehicle? I'll buy heads/intake new. I want to stick with carb - not efi.

Ideas? Thanks!!
 

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'86 was the first year of the 5.0 roller block. '94 was the first year of the 351 block, and some were still built with flat tappet cams, but if you drill out the holes and tap them (in the valley) you can install the roller kit with the hold down spyder.

But as far as your build? Depends on what you want out of the car. Myself, I wanted a little bump in HP, so I took my time and just about bought everything used or new but second hand to save money.
5.0 roller block .030 over ($50 used locally)
10:1 Keith Black pistons ($150 still new in box)
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads ($600 used at local swap meet)
Trick Flow Stage 1 camshaft ($125 for new cam and lifters)
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap intake ($210 shipped, still new in box)
Balanced
Buying used I saved over $1000 on parts alone. And the only parts that were actually used was the heads. They only had one season of drag racing on them and the guy upgraded. And they were sent back to Trick Flow to be checked out.
Corral.net has a great used parts forum you can get some good deals off of. Don't be afraid to buy a good used set of heads. Guys on Corral always have heads for sale due to needing more CFM's on their builds. I saved $600 on that purchase alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yea, problem is I'm not 100% sure what I want. I want a driver, period. I want it to put my back in the seat when I hit the pedal, halfway decent mpg, reliability, and sounds good too. Maybe 350-400hp and a 5 speed.

Not looking to race. But not looking to get blown away by any late model car that comes along either.
 

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Ford racing has a 306 with 340 hp and 310 tq for peanuts. With a decent set of gears, you'll feel that pull and still get decent mileage with a t5.
 

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I like a 302 Roller block stroked to 347. Good set of Aluminum heads w/ mild cam. Usually put you at around 400Hp/400Tq and very driveable with premium fuel. And not that costly. Have done it a few times and very happy.
 

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Check out Tuff Dawg Engines. They built my 351w and I love it. Mine is probably a bit more than you want but they have other options.

Home - Tuff Dawg Engines
 

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Man, why would you dump the 351C and turn around and look into getting a 351W? For making power, the Cleveland is the way to go. If you want to stick with a 302, you need a 302/5.0 block, not a 351W.

What are your goals and what is your budget?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Man, why would you dump the 351C and turn around and look into getting a 351W? For making power, the Cleveland is the way to go. If you want to stick with a 302, you need a 302/5.0 block, not a 351W.

What are your goals and what is your budget?
I hear you. I am learning, and before I read this from you, I was wondering the same thing - if maybe what I was doing doesnt make sense. So basically I should go with a 302 and build up from there, or keep 351C?

As for why would I not go 351C, well, I'm just not keen on keeping the stock heads. There are alum heads that are 40 years technology advanced. So why pay to have mine redone - put the $ towards new alum, right? So now I end up with a 351C with alum heads....but then I hear the W is a better block. So why not go late model 351W block with a 351C alum head? I just dont know the knoledge in the engine dept to answer my own questions (or even know what I am talking about).

I was thinking the perfect small block answer would be late model 351W block roller with alum 351C heads. No??

Fire back at me please!!!
 

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What 351C stuff do you have exactly?
The current stroker kits really help with those big port heads.
A 393C or 408C will be plenty powerful, and you don't need to buy aluminum heads.
My friend Dan Jones has discovered that the closed chamber 4V heads with the smaller port Edelbrock RPM air gap intake make a good street type combo with good low end and good top end.
FPA makes the best fitting mustang headers for the 351C.
 

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I hear you. I am learning, and before I read this from you, I was wondering the same thing - if maybe what I was doing doesnt make sense. So basically I should go with a 302 and build up from there, or keep 351C?

As for why would I not go 351C, well, I'm just not keen on keeping the stock heads. There are alum heads that are 40 years technology advanced. So why pay to have mine redone - put the $ towards new alum, right? So now I end up with a 351C with alum heads....but then I hear the W is a better block. So why not go late model 351W block with a 351C alum head? I just dont know the knoledge in the engine dept to answer my own questions (or even know what I am talking about).

I was thinking the perfect small block answer would be late model 351W block roller with alum 351C heads. No??

Fire back at me please!!!
What kind of power goals do you have and what's your budget? People can make all sorts of suggestions, but if you only want 300hp and have a budget of $1000, it's going to be a completely different combo than if you want 500hp and have a budget of $5000.

The 351C was/is capable of so much more power than the way it was shipped from the factory. The 351C-4V heads bone stock will outflow a lot of the off-the-shelf aftermarket 302/351W heads. Like JSams said, with a stroker crank in a 351C with stock heads, you can make a great motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks guys -

As for power 400 would be nice if it doesnt make me get 8mpg....lol. I do want to drive this car a lot.

I have 2 1970 2 bolt main blocks and 5 D0AE closed chanber heads heads. I also have the 1970 4V intake manifold. I guess since I am not going for the purist thing, I just want to go with what is best, not vintage. I assumed alum would be better technology.

Budget isnt too tight, but keeping the engine at 5k would be nice.
 

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Do a 408 cleveland with a moderate cam and you will be surprised.
Are there some modern aluminum heads that are more efficient? Yes.
But the Cleveland 4V heads make great power and you already have them.
What is the bore size in your block?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What is the bore size in your block?
Thats a good question - I need to find that out real soon....lol. Your leaning me towards the C build, but then I get pulled away fast by a good friend (GM guy) who sayd alum is the only way to go. Let me check the block bore - I'll reply asap! I do appreciate the help - seriously. I'm dumb when it comes to engine builds!
 

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Thats a good question - I need to find that out real soon....lol. Your leaning me towards the C build, but then I get pulled away fast by a good friend (GM guy) who sayd alum is the only way to go. Let me check the block bore - I'll reply asap! I do appreciate the help - seriously. I'm dumb when it comes to engine builds!
Don't listen to a GM guy for advice on a Ford. :) If I listened to my Mopar buddy, I'd be broke and driving a turd. LOL.

With a $5k budget, you can build an awesome Cleveland. With stock heads you can easily reach the 450hp mark. AFD and CHI make some amazing aluminum heads and you can easily reach the 600hp mark.

Here's a good primer on the potential of the Cleveland. Building Ford 351C Stroker Motors Do some reading on the Aussie Ford forums too. We only got the Cleveland from 1970-1974, however, the Cleveland was in production over there from 1970-1985. Because that was their primary V8, there is some good engine combo ideas you can get from them.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ok, so drop some more knowledge on me please - why are the reasons I should use stock heads? If I spend $500 (I have no idea what it cost) to have my 4V heads redone, isnt it worth the xtra $$ just to go alum and get an even better head?

Also, what about all the "W is a better block" stuff?? If thats the case why wouldnt I go clevor?

I did read the article above - interesting stuff! Thanks - I like to learn all I can. That helped!

Just some thoughts to help me out - Thanks AGAIN......lol.
 

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Ok, so drop some more knowledge on me please - why are the reasons I should use stock heads? If I spend $500 (I have no idea what it cost) to have my 4V heads redone, isnt it worth the xtra $$ just to go alum and get an even better head?

Also, what about all the "W is a better block" stuff?? If thats the case why wouldnt I go clevor?

I did read the article above - interesting stuff! Thanks - I like to learn all I can. That helped!

Just some thoughts to help me out - Thanks AGAIN......lol.
Stock 4V heads are capable of supporting 500hp. Since your goal is only 400hp, why would you need anything bigger? $500 is about right to have the heads cleaned up. Complete aluminum Cleveland heads are about $1800-$2500. The Cleveland 4V heads are the best flowing small block heads Ford made. Tell your GM buddy while all the GM guys were searching for Fuelie heads (2.02" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves) the 4V Clevelands came with 2.19" intake and 1.71" exhaust valves. That's virtually the same size valves they used in the 427. Basically, the stock heads are more than capable of reaching your goals, and since you already have them, $500 to have them cleaned up is a pretty good deal.

As for the Windsor being stronger than a Cleveland I don't know about that. The Cleveland did have a silly oiling system where the the cam was oiled before the mains, but there's an easy fix to correct that issue. The Cleveland uses 2.75" mains which are better suited to high RPM duty than the 3" mains of the Windsor.
 

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Get a 302 roller block, add 347 stroker kit (Scat or Eagle), 195cc aluminum heads (known brand), nice hydraulic roller cam, good intake/carb, good exhaust and you'll get 400 rwhp through a 5-spd. That's what I doing right now. A decent build will cost you over $5k though. I have $7k in my engine.
 
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