Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Please provide as much input as you can, based on the collective wisdom of all of the members here:

I bought a 67 convertible as a project for my son and I back in May. He turns 16 in December, and wants a classic Mustang for his first car, like his mom and I had.

Facts on car:
VIN: Dataplate Breakdown:
Body: Convertible, Standard Interior, Bucket Seats
Color: Brittany Blue
[Interior] Trim: Blue standard
Date: 24 of April (1st year)
DSO: Omaha
Axle: 3.00:1 Limited-Slip
Trans: C-4 Automatic


VIN (Warrenty Number) Breakdown:
7 = 1967
F = Dearborn, MI
03 = Convertible
C = 289-2v
193058 = Consecutive unit number #193058

Additional options: Power top, console, amber fog lights

Condition: The car hadn't been started in 5 years per PO. It hadn't been registered for 10. Engine was missing alternator and air cleaner (no big deal, planning to rebuild engine and tranny, add 4v, dual exhaust, etc).

Body: Sheetmetal is good for the most part, but the cancer under the skin is bad! Needs new torque boxes, rocker panels, floor pans, rear frame extensions, trunk floors and drops, rear inner and outer wheel wells.

I paid $1600 for the car. I planned to do the work myself, and still want to do as much as I can, but I've got no experience doing body work. Learning on the structural stuff scares me, so I had the local mustang body guru out to the house today to look at the car. He shot me a rough figure of $10k to do all bodywork, including paint.

Interior is good, top is good, will need new carpet and most of the little detail stuff replaced (trim, mirrors, etc) during reassembly.

I've been reading VMF for the past few months, and I know now that the right thing to do would have been to buy a solid body, and go from there (what I intended to do in the first place, but c'mon--$1600 for a convertible, what a great deal--or so I thought.

Now for the guestion: Do I pay to have the body work done right, and have a $12k body I know is perfect, then do the engine, tranny, suspension myself? Or, do I sell the car for whatever I can get out of it, then start trying to find a solid body that I can rebuild myself?

Re: the always asked question: How much do I want to spend? We went into this looking to buy a coupe for about $5k. Finding a cheap convertible was a bonus (I thought). I am not looking to build a concours car, but figured I'd have about $15k in it when I finished.

Can you buy a no-rust convertible for $10-12k, or am I money ahead with the known car?

We've already started developing some emotional attachment by tearing the car down, and dreaming what it will be like when we get done. If I'm going to bail out on this one, I gotta do it NOW.

Need some common sense advise, affirmation, or ridicule, as appropriate.

Thanks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,578 Posts
A professional paint job with minimal prep or body work might run you $5000 anyway. $10K for all that work and paint is a very good shop price, IMO.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,428 Posts
That's a near decent price if the work is quality. By the time you add another 5K for the engine rebuild and other items, you're talking about 17K for a great car. That's right at ball park(+-) for a Good "C" vert.
You can buy a rust free car( :p) for about that price, but you still don't truly know the condition of every thing. What may look good, may not be.
If the guy does good work and gives you the price in writing; I think you might be farther ahead rebuilding. If he starts talking contingencies, run away you'll add another 10K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
Greg,
At least you are starting asking the right questions. And here's my response.

Body work is the one thing that most people think they can do but very few can. There are a lot of tools required to do it right, and a lot of techniques to learn from experience to make it right.

Rebuilding an engine would come next. Most guys can wrench the motor together if they're patient, but you still have to pay someone else to do the physical machining.

Stuff like assembly and interior is stuff anyone can do with a little patience.

Back to body work. Talk to your Mustang Guru and get a real sense of what needs to be done. Think realistically about what you are capable of doing. As you note - this is a brittany blue convertible - you don't want to mess it up! If you have to pay someone to fix it it costs double (trust me!).

Work with the Mustang guy. Sometimes they will let you do the grunt work (stripping panels, dis-assembly) and save you some money. Let him do any structural repairs so its done right.

Over half of the work I have done in the past is fixing someones home remedy for restoration. Do it right the first time. That way, regardless of your eventual use of the car (you'll change your mind - trust me on that one too!) the body won't have to be redone. Good luck!

Dave
::
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
938 Posts
If you have a regular job you will not have it near done by the time kid is ready to drive...
More of these father/son projects terminate due to son loosing interest, for whatever reasons..
You probably don't EVEN have the tools to do the job right..
Takes every bit of the 2 car garage to do a piecee of work like this..Mom give up her side for a year??
The 10k quote by the local guy be twice as much.go to Mustangsteves sitee and read his theories on resto a Mustang..
Rusted out verts can be found anywhere for 1600 and it's probably far worse than what you see..

Park it in storage and use half of the resto money and get thee kid a coupe more ready...
Kid will loose interest, once again....needs something that isn't all work and no play(occssonal quick, sneaky run around block with ole Dad...
Run some of that by the son...think you'll find something neat out about each other. If you can drop that money on the resto try to hold on to it and get a betteer car. If things go as normal you''ll both get bitten by the bug and have a great time resto thee vert for MOM secretly!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,193 Posts
I agree that the work is probably priced about right and nearly any convert is worth the effort; but – the big question – do you really want to give a first-time driver that kind of high-end car? It's your decision of course; but as for me – there's no way I'd give my kid (regardless of how responsible and mature they appear to be) a ragtop V8 as their first car. Not for fear of wasting money, but for safety's sake.

If you've really become attached to it, how about saving it for yourself and your wife? Instead of pouring thousands in to it right now, you could set it aside spend $3000 or $4000 for a near-perfect I6 coupe. Less horsepower and less work for a car that – let's face it – will probably suffer its share of high school door dings! :p Just a thought...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,482 Posts
It sounds like you got the car at a reasonable price. The quote of $10k for the chassis repairs and paint had better be a top notch, stunning job, because there's been folks who were quoted about $4k for that sort of repairs plus the cost of a paint job. Now that was a coupe, and a 'vert can be more taxing depending upon the approach taken. I'd have thought $7-8k, particularly if you're doing a significant amount of the disassembly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Appreciate all of the comments so far!!! More info/replies to posts:

Re: the comment that there's more work that's hidden: We've already pretty much completed tear-down, so there's not much left to hide.

Mom gave up the garage already. She can live with that.



Re: keep it for me and mom--We already want to do that, but we're trying to keep in mind that it's his car. Then I'd have to do 2 mustangs!!!

Re: 16 yo with a v8 vert: I've got his great grandfather's CHERRY 95 Corsica 4-door (23k original miles!!!) laid on for a daily driver, so no HS door dings. Yes, he's a 16 yo, and yes, we all know how a 16 yo male brain works, but he's about as mature/responsible as they come, and besides, both of his grandfathers were willing to risk 16yo knuckleheads driving classic mustangs w/ v8s. You can't shield them forever.

Please continue to provide input--we're all reading, and appreciate all of the advice so far.

Anyone know if there's a Vintage Corsica Forum as well? ::
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,689 Posts
I like the other ideas of getting him a coupe but it seems like the conv. is going to come out on top.

You both may not do all of the work but I am sure you will become very attached to it. Hopefully he will understand the money and effort it takes to bring one back. If he does, then I am sure he will take care off it.

To have a car that you KNOW is done right is worth a little extra effort and money. If the shop will guaranty the 10k and not increase it, then go for it. ::

What you learn from this one may help you decide to buy another project for you and your wife and buy one done. You will be educated first hand on the subject. good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
938 Posts
Now that you've stripped it any body can see the rust damage..maybe worth less now much less if you can even find a buyer..
It's not the son's fault he gets killed or mangled. It will be the time spent out on the road that will suject him to get nailed by the other bad driver..
Shop work..are you ready to go thru the confrontations caused by the phone calls saying' we ned more money"? This can spread like widfire in a family, bring out some traits maybe best back from others. "we're getting screwed and I'm not going to stand for it" type of thing.
Infamouly once a shop has a car, you are over the barrel. Shop knows this especially resto places. Have you checkeed out the next shop you'd have the wrecker driver drop off the shell to?
Do you even know quality work and correct reeassemnbly of the major frame componets if you saw it?
"We can't find the part, as soon as YOU get it wee'll get back on it"
If the two of you can't figure out how to weld you are really missing something..maybe disaster but more than likely some of the best memories you all will share. It just ani't that tuff to fix these cars but you'll never know if you don't do it yourselves.
Still don't buy the wife will let you have her half of garage for that long..prove me wrong!!!
Do wish you the best..just trying to hammer some points home to you beforee you pay the piper..
Keep the car!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
To reply to all of the people who say save it for the parents, this is the son who will be the main driver of the car, it will not be a daily driver! it will be a car to take on dates and special occasions, i have ABSOLUTELY no intentions of taking it to school and having my tires slashed and my doors dinged. for the guy who said that he would never give his son a vert, with all of the sweat, blood and tears in that car, i will be so careful with that car you would think that it was my on kid. i dont appreciate all of the comments that i would be irresponsable with the car, sure i may have to open it up and let it fly every once in a while but with my insurance levels i have absolutly NO room to screw up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,628 Posts
in '97 i bought a "68 6-cyl coupe to practice restoration during my retirement years before buying something better. i do not make ajob of it and do things as i feel like doing them. it is a very solid car and needed only drv side rear frame rail extension, drv side trunk dropoff, radiator support frame, battery fender apron, and patched floorpans for structure needs. i have replaced everything underneath (suspension, steering, and handling, brake/gas lines), MC, all new brakes, radiator recored, complete interior, waterpump, detailed underside and engine compartment, and replaced carb. - did all myself except welding and have about $6500 in car (paid $2000) and only needs painting with drive train OK. have spread sheet on details i could e-mail you -if interested send me PM. yours is much worse as you describe it with torque boxes and rockers bad.
when i started i planned on going out in desert country and get rust free car but have since got attached to this one and probably not do that. i have concluded that it is much cheaper to by restored car than doing it yourself unless you like to do it which i very much like. your son will lose interest fast if car is up on jackstands for couple of years and he can't drive it. i agree with others that what you describe is too much to give 16 yr old. in my case i gave my kids $600 junkers and paid their insurance until they got a job. they are in the 40 yr age group now and none have had an accident - oldest son got ticket first night he had car which he had to pay for out of $10 week allowance and no car for a month. once was enough.
of course today high schoolers are driving their own SUVs to school but do not appreciate them because they did not earn them. this may sound preachy but it is how i feel.
your results would be good if you both dedicated yourselves to it but have my doubts it will succeed. just my 2 millicents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Wow!!! Just knocked over several large pieces of furniture running from the dinner table to log back on, once my son told me that he replied to the posts about him not being responsible enough, etc!!! (Guess I might want to remove the cookie that automatically signs me in!) :eek:

Well, after reviewing his post, I don't think the damage is too bad. Despite his poor grammar and spelling (for some reason he thinks that the proper English only applies on hard copies that get graded), he's a very responsible, mature kid, and definitely not a spoiled brat. If he was irresponsible or immature, the car wouldn't even be an option.

Believe me, I understand the cynicism about today's youth, but I work with my son and others in the Boy Scouts, and there are some great young men out there too.

If the son loses interest, well, that's a gain for me and SWMBO! ::

Ambush: I appreciate your caution, and advice about the body shop. This guy comes highly recommended by several Mustanger's in the area, owns several of his own, and I've seen his work. I won't claim to be an MCA judge, but the cars I've seen are awesome. I think he's reliable and his references lead me to believe that he isn't going to screw me around. SWMBO just laughed about not giving up her garage spot. She's used to her car being parked outside for snowmobile maintenance, etc, and don't forget, she's got Mustang in her blood too. She's been wrenching just as much as anyone else (what a woman!!!). You're right, you can't defend against the other idiots on the road, but that rule is true for all of us. The odds of someone else hitting it a week after we're done is the same whether I'm driving or him.

We've talked quite a bit, and I think we're going to continue the project. I'm going to talk more to the body guy, and may see what I can work out to do some of the non-structural welding ourselves. I'll definitely keep everyone up to speed and appreciate all comments. One of these days I'll finish putting together the web page, so I can share our progress. ::

Oh yeah, and he's going to have to get his own log-in!

Thanks again,
Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
I think you should keep the car and do things gradually. First I would have the frames, TBs,floors, etc fixed. You can remove the interior yourselfs and have a pro cut and weld the floors, etc. Then put a new interior in and you will most likely have a nice daily driver.

The paint can come later and you can shop around. Meanwhile you can have a car that drives and is solid.

Same with the mechanicals. Get the motor running OK, do the brakes first, change all of the fluids and so on.

I've owned my car for 24 years and I still do things to improve it. Its part of the hobby.

Good luck with your decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,139 Posts
+ $500 for rebuilding the tranny
+ $500 for rebuilding the front end
+ $1000 for the interior
+ $500 for rebuilding the brakes
+ $2000 for odds and ends
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
Boy, I'd say you got some good input from everyone. My 2 cents.

If your son is really into it and it gives you guys tons of quality time together, it will be times you'll never forget. No matter the end result, that's worth more than any car.

I agree with trying to do it in stages so that you can get it on the road before two years or more. I've heard so many stories about people running out of time, desire, patients or guts to finish a complete resto.

I've got three daughters, and my oldest is a senior looking into colleges for next year. The next two years before your son heads off will go very fast, so make the most of what ever you decide.

Good luck :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,561 Posts
Another option is to check out local high schools and VoTech's to see if you can smooze the car in for the hard body work and/or paint work to be done at a nominal fee as a training vehicle. Had good results before, by letting a car sit for 6 months at a high school shop class, they did almost everything needed. Had a full frame machine, MIG, brake lathe, paint booth, etc. Just had to supply parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
Having single parented two responsible mature teens, I can tell you that being 16 is being 16. It takes years to become a mature adult, and that's not saying your son is not mature for 16. you cannot expect, nor will a 16 y/o have the maturity of 18 or 21 until he lives through those years leading up to it. Already he has stated he will get on it every now and then. Fine, does he have the experience to control it? Without details, I will only mention that one son rolled a 65 and the other, well, it just got bought for someone to use for parts. Most importantly, I urge you to really think about sending someone so dear to you out in a vehicle without the safety features available on todays cars. Traffic is not like it was when we were kids. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of your kid wanting to have a 15k classic car-I know, but as parents we need to do what is best. I'm not so sure I did. I do know I'd do it differently. Luckily, no serious injuries resulted.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top