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Discussion Starter #1
The wrong Flywheel, Harmonic Balancer and Crank still function, with NO vibration??????

I cross ref. at MustangTek:

Harmonic bal. 1965-67 289 (C5AE-6316 A2)

Flywheel (C6AE-6380 C) (8E18) 6cyl truck 11" clutch 164 ring gear.

Bell Housing (C5AA-6494-B)65-68 2v 3_4sp b4_2/15/68
67-68 Falcon 2v 3_4sp b4_2/15/68
65 289 Hipo Fairlane 4v 4sp
65 289 Fairlane 4v-PF 3_4sp
68 289 Fairlane Falcon 2v MT b4_2/15/68
68 302 Ford_PC MT
68+ 302 Fairlane Mustang Falcon w/MT
69-70 Boss 302 Mustang

I've been told that the FW is wrong for my app. It does not have the added weight for balance (28.oz) and if used it would shake the whole motor.

I have the 1968 289. The guy I bought the car from said he pulled the motor from a Fairlane and used the same crank (M1), FW, Bell & Har. Bal. with no problems. I bought the car with motor out. The guy said that the rockers were eating the keepers and metal was throughout the motor.
(The rockers had ridges on the sides, not factory and that wore the keepers.) I took the motor to the Mach. Shop, getting it cleaned out and new rockers installed. Since the guy gave me 2 flywheels I looked up the Casting # to see what went where. The one flywheel goes to a 400m the other is the 6 cyl. The prior owner asked which FW had red paint and it was the cyl one. which confirms the color of the block he painted.

Since the Har. Bal is a 65-67 will that allow me to use the 6 cyl FW and M1 crank or do I need another FW. Please Please advise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks in advance for your time and help!
 

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Since these engine are externally balanced the thing should shake like crazy if it has the wrong flywheel. Guys find out all too often when they install a 50oz late model 5.0l balancer on the earlier 28oz 302's.

If you are rebuilding the engine just have the rotating assembly balanced. That is not a step that I would skip during a rebuild. It is worth the money to have it done.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ryan,
I completely agree to getting a motor balanced during the rebuild, but this is not my ideal motor to spend money on. Eventually I'd like to get a 351. For the time this donor motor wil be used during the rebuild which should take a couple of years. I just don't have that much money to throw in one season.

Getting back to this build. Again I spoke to the prior owner. He said that he got the 68 289 out of a 65 automatic Mustang. He then ruined the crank during a cam swap. He found a 1967 Fairlane 289 in the Junkyard, pulled the crank, harmonic balancer (HB) and flywheel (FW) and had the 289 rebuilt.

I'd like to say he's lying, because the flywheel has NO counter weight as the HB. The only way this might work, is if the crank was balanced w/ the FW on. There is a rebuilder tag number on the block, so who knows. I'd hate to get it all together and find that I need another FW. The funny thing is, is that he painted the engine red, and the FW has red overspray showing the outline of the block. Documentaion tells me to change the FW w/ one that has the 28oz weight. I'm gonna swing over to a Fairlane site and see what I can fine.

Something is just not adding up!!!!!!!!!!

Opinions are greatly appreciated!
 

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As stated earlier getting the internals balanced is wise money and not much at that. At this point I would not put any value in heresay from POs. There's one sure way to be sure this engine will last the duration. Once you get your next engine completed, if this one runs well it has resale value.
I suppose you could keep shopping for answers and eventually hear one you want. Just be sure its from a reliable and experienced source. These forums are a great medium of communication but sometimes folks misrepresent their level of knowlege. That can be costly.
You're not talking much money to get things balanced. I wouldn't build an engine without it.
 

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When I bought a Ford Motorsport 5.0, on a pallet, several years ago, the seller gave me a 50 oz damper, flexplate. However, he gave me 2 flexplates and a 28 oz one was mistakenly installed. Had the engine in a 65 cvt. Drove it slow, etc. and decided to drive it across the state and back. On the way over varied speed and did not go over 60. On the way back, out in the middle of state, not a car in sight so gave it full throttle. When speedo hit 80 the car shook like I never experienced! Had C-4 and put it in neutral. Vibration stopped. From that time on, 70 was max and NOT too often!! Later, still not realizing the mistake found the other skinny box and opened it to find THE 50 OZ DAMPER.
Never changed it until pulling it to put a 289 in, saving the 5.0 for my 68. It is in my 68 WITH the 50 OZ damper. Have had it to 85 with nary a complaint!! Was amazed that it didn't vibrate at a lower speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yelostang, Interesting story. Maybe the PO never knew it was wrong since he never had it pegged long enough.

1-18-68, Sound advice. I took the Flywheel & Harmonic bal. over to the shop and they will check for balance before I spend any more money.

I'll keep ya posted.

Thanks to all!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Choice 157 or 164 4spd flywheel??????

Shop says the flywheel is not correct, therefore I have to shell out more $$$ for the right one (164 th 28oz) but before I go any further, I need your opinion. I have 2 choices

289 (about 300 hp) 4spd toploader-1969 Fasback

(1) Get the 157 bell, flywheel, fork and clutch set up.
(2) Stay with what I have, the larger flywheel and a starter.
I'll need a new flywheel and clutch set up.

Do I really need an 11" set up. I'm halfway there, so go for it????
OR
Go back to stock app get a 10.5 set up.

I don't have the Boss Z-Bar, just the std 302 Z-Bar. I was wondering if the 11" would twist the std Z-Bar. I heard the 11" bites hard off the line.

What avenue would be best. Thank You!!
 

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flywheel balance

Prayer, I'm not really sure I understand your problem......if it fits and everything works and it doesn't shake, whats the issue ? The number of teeth on the ring gear will determine how many teeth need to be on the starter drive. Don't worry about whats 'correct', just be certain it mates up without grind and chewing itself up. The 11 inch clutch should be just fine. If it came off from a six banger, so what ? Any flywheel, yes, ANY flywheel can be balanced to work with the crank you have. The 6 cyl wheel you have now could have been balanced at a shop to match the 289's 28 oz crank. If it hasn't been, you can probably do that for less than buying a new 'wheel. Tell the guy it is a neutral balance wheel and needs to match up to a 28oz 289/302. If he hesitates or says it will take more than 20 minutes to do, find someone else. it ain't that tough to do. LSG
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes, I understand that does make good sense.

I bought the vehicle with the drivetrain out and a few boxes of parts, so I'm trying to piece it together, brackets, bolts, etc..........

I had 2 flywheels, I ran the casting numbers, one had 180 & the other had 164 teeth. Now knowing that I need 164 th, I soon discovered that it had to be 28oz. The 164 I have does not have the 28oz. I called the PO and he says the crank, HB & FW came out of a 67 Fairlane. `He stuck it in the 289 and had NO problems (How can that be).
I just had the Crank, HB & FW checked for balance and was told that the FW is wrong and need the 28oz type. I'll ask if they can balance the FW.
Is the PO pulling my leg, I have no reason to believe so.

My dilemma is, since I'm in the early stage of gathering parts for the clutch set up, is the 11" clutch set an overkill for a stock 289/302 Z-BAR.
I see that the Boss 302 had a different z-bar w/ a 10.5 clutch. If I go with the 164 FW, do I need to change the Z-BAR or keep the stock version.......................Thanks in advance for your in put!
 

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I just had the Crank, HB & FW checked for balance and was told that the FW is wrong and need the 28oz type. I'll ask if they can balance the FW.
Is the PO pulling my leg, I have no reason to believe so.

My dilemma is, since I'm in the early stage of gathering parts for the clutch set up, is the 11" clutch set an overkill for a stock 289/302 Z-BAR.
I see that the Boss 302 had a different z-bar w/ a 10.5 clutch. If I go with the 164 FW, do I need to change the Z-BAR or keep the stock version.......................Thanks in advance for your in put!
The the 289HP used the 157T wheel, and the BOSS 302 used the 164T wheel. Both used the same 10.5" clutch, which I have on my car. Excellent, and never had a problem with the equalizer.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
22GT, Thank you for the reply. What year is your car?
I thought that the Boss 302 had a stiffer Z-Bar due to the 11" setup. Now I've been told that it was different due to different exhaust manifolds. How much difference can it be between stock 289/302,
I will be running longtube headers. What is your opinion on that.

My plans are as folows:
Keep larger Bell housing, use 164 th balanced Flywheel, use stock z-bar and 10.5 clutch setup.
 

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66. The B302 equalizer was designed to clear the Boss manifold. It wasn't made stronger. The B302 used the same 10.5" clutch as the 289 HP. In fact, the clutch carried the 1967 289HP part number.
 
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