You are correct. I have already contacted the moderators, but they have not yet found the problem. The photos linked work on two other forums, but are not working here. They were working previously, then just stopped. No idea why. Sorry for the lack of "transparancy". Thanks for following along. Please come back in a couple of days to see if the moderators have discovered the problem.
I am finally getting a some time to make some progress. (And having a lot of fun too!) After doing a bit of shaving and fitting, i finally got both the outer wheel well (Dynacorn) and the inner wheel well (Mustangs to Fear) mated together and welded in place.
These MTF inner tubs are quite nice. Very well made, and really open up the space for wider tires. My one minor suggestion is that they should extend the front panel where the tub meets the inner rocker end. It definately fits, but is not long enough to cover the full rocker. I will go back later and add an additional piece of sheet metal to fully cover the inner rocker end.
I am still formulating what to do about the gap at the top of the MTF inner well where it does not match up with the outer well. I don't want to just "beat it into place" because it will look lousy. I am either going to section it to fit, or completely cut out that area of the outer well and lay in new panel to match the flat top area of the MTF well. That is another days task.
In order to place and fit the left wheel well pieces, I had to fit both the quarter panels and the rear tail light panel into place to make sure they all line up an fit perfectly. I am using practically every clamp I own, but was able to get all the panels in place to begin fitting and marking.
It is pretty exciting to see the shape coming into view!!
This is where the fitment issues began. On the right side, everything seemed to pretty much slide in to place. Just a few minor adjustments, and viola! But when I went to fit the left side, i had to fight the fitment where the front bottom of the quarter panel meets the top of the outer rocker panel.
On the right hand side where the rear end of the quarter panel meets the trunk fall off panel, the bottom of the trunk side lined up perfectly with the seam on the inside of the lower rear quarter panel.
However, in order to get the front lower seam on the quarter panel to be straight and tight, the lower rear of the quarter panel ends up about 3/8" too high.
To make matters even more confusing, the rear light panel had to be adjusted 3/8"+ too LOW in order to make the previous items line up well. (to recap, the rear panel is 3/8" too LOW and the rear of the Left quarter panel appear to be 3/8" too HIGH. How can they both be true? You see my problem!!
The right side of the rear light panel also had to be moved down just a about 3/8" to make the left side fit. The right quarter still seems to fit fine, perhaps a bit better. The curves of the very tip of the quarter fit even more nicely into the edge of the rear light panel. The center point of the rear light panel matches up perfectly.
So now I need your help. It appears that I can weld the rear light panel to the frame at the 3/8" low point that it seems to be at. Somehow this doesn't seem right. Literally as I write this, I have a thought as to why the rear panel doesn't line up. The entire car is still on the rotisserie, attached only at the very front of the firewall area directly to the inner rocker panel (which isn't going to bend!) and at only six inches forward of the very back of the frame. Is is possible that the frame is flexing 3/8" from the rear torque boxes to the back of the frame? Do I need to take the frame off the rotisserie and support it with jack stands only at either end of the inner/outer rockers, allowing the rear frame aft of the rear torque boxes to return to it's standard (lower) position? Is there another issue that I might be missing?
Final question. The outer wheel well that I received for the right side is definitely a Dynacorn item, said so right on the sticker. It was clearly a well made piece, well formed, sharp edges and smooth curves, a nice coat of "can't really weld-thru" primer on it. For whatever reason, the outer wheel well that I received for the left side is clearly a lesser quality piece. It is primered black instead of weld-thru silver, the corners were not as sharp, the edges were more ragged, and one flange wasn't even in the right place. In order to fit correctly, the flange had to be re-bent to line up correctly. All this is manageable i guess, but i noticed that while the Dynacorn piece is a nice round shape, the black piece has a flat spot in the curve near the rear end.
Does it make any difference? Should I get a Dynacorn part for the left to match the right? Once I get it all welded to the inner tub, will it even show up or matter?
I have sent multiple requests for assistance, but thus far they have not found the problem. Photos came back briefly, but are once again MIA. I have no idea what to do or what is going on. Thanks for hanging in with me.
A very trusted adviser on the MTF forum was concerned that I not get everything welded into place before I confirm that the doors were going to fit. Since I had not moved either the A or B pillars, I hoped that the doors would fit, but I had not ordered them yet. I didn't want to store them. But based upon his concern, I decided to order the doors. First impression, wow, I really got them quickly! I ordered them Monday, received them today! Second impression: I was impressed with the nice black protective coating on the outside, and quite disappointed that there was almost no coating at all on the inside of the door. The very reason I had to replace the doors was because the originals had no rust protection on the inside of the door! I had hoped that we had evolved a bit in the past 50 years. Apparently not in this particular area. I have been vacillating about whether to spend the money to have the entire car powder coated inside and out. I am pretty sure the poor protection for the doors pushes me back toward powder coating.
This evening I searched around and found the hinges and the bolts for the doors. It is still going to take some adjustment of the bolts to get the door to gap correctly, but I am pleased to say that my plan of leaving the A & B pillars in placed worked like a charm! The doors fit perfectly right out of the box.
Inside the car between the two rear wheel houses is the rear seat mount panel. It is set in place and held with a couple of clamps, but not welded in. Now that the doors appear to fit, and the since the rear quarters already fit, i believe that I will go ahead and weld in this large piece. (It will be great to get it out of the way!!) Over the weekend I had to change the flanges that previously were attached to the sides of the wheel wells. Since my rear inner tubs are wider than stock, there was no room for the traditional piece that went between the rear seat panel and the wheel well. I bent the flanges flat, then trimmed them to fit snugly between the wheel wells. I then used some 3/4" angle irons to add new points to weld to the wheel wells. I thought I had taken photos of this process, but apparently I didn't. Sorry I didn't document this step. I plan to take the seat mount panel out once more to check everything, and I will try to take some shots of the adjustments at that point.
While a large number of people panic from this media driven virus scare, I decided to use the time wisely: work on the Mustang, and catch up on my posts on the forums. A lot of my time for the past couple of months has been taken up with business and family responsibilities. My sister is through chemo infusion #10 of 12. All is going exceptionally well thus far. Praise God!! I have traveled a bit for business, but am glad to be home. Progress has been slow on the Mustang, but rewarding. When I last updated this thread, I was working on installing the seat back unit that separates the cockpit from the trunk. I had to do some creative adaptation to make the unit fit correctly. There was not room between the deeper inner wheel housings and the seat back assembly for the typical pieces. There was a flange built into the assembly that was supposed to be welded to an inner piece, and that inner piece was to be welded to the original wheel well. I re-bent this flange to be flat, and then cut it to fit tightly between the wheel wells. I then welded some 3/4" L material to the end of the newly fitted cuts to create a new flange. I finally could weld the entire seat back unit into place.
The seat back unit fit perfectly against the original upper floor pan between the new floor and the trunk. I clamped it into place and welded it in.
at the top of both the outer wheel housings, you can see that there is a large opening where the flat area of the inner wheel house does not match the arch of the outer wheel house. I could just pound it flat like ford did originally, but no, that is not me. I wanted it to be nice and neat. I started by cutting this extra area out approximately where the top of the inner wheel house would meet. I left it a bit tall, then ground it down until I could get the straight edge to match up flat on the inner wheel house and on the outer edge of the outer wheel house.
I then made a cardboard form and cut out a piece of metal to fit the hole. It took a bit of shaping and adjustment, but I got the new cover cut and fitted. I welded it into place.
I don't have a photo of it, but I turned the car upside down and fully welded all the seams where the inner and outer wheel wells meet from the underside. I want to make sure that all these seams are completely sealed. Now that it is fully welded, I will grind it flat, then seal the entire inner wheel house with under-body coat. I haven't done that yet.
This one piece, the drip rail, is the reason I had to buy a rusted entire back half of a 67 Mustang just so I could tear it apart, throw 80% of it away, and keep this piece and a few others.
Today I started painting it with POR 15. But there is a lot of story that goes before this photo. Unfortunately most of the photos of this phase seem to have gotten lost. I can't find a whole series of photos. Oh well, you will have to use your imagination. This piece entered my life looking like this:
That drip rail between the red lines is the only piece (thus far) for which no one makes a replacement part. After taking the rusty hulk hulk apart. I had this drip rail sand blasted. It was in rough shape. One of the channels that carries rainwater away from the interior of the car was completly rusted through. Several sections had significant "swiss cheese" rust through. In order to maintain the overall integrity of the piece, I cut away only as much metal as I had to in order to get back to solid metal. It was thin, but it was solid. I then custom made splints that fully encase the lower half of the side rails. (the rear cross member area was in a bit better condition.) You can see the weld lines where I welded the splint to the underside of the drip rail. (keep in mind that the drip rail is upside down on my work bench.)
Fixing all the rust and damage on the drip rail took a lot of time. Now that it is done, I want to protect this piece as best I can. This piece is perhaps the most exposed yet under appreciated piece on the entire car. No one notices it, but when it rains, it carries off all the water that gets under the convertible top and channels it down the sides of the car inside the area where the rear quarter windows live. This piece, and where the water is drained, are both areas that tend to rust out. I want to do all I can to protect them both. I have been going back and forth considering powder coating the entire car, using some sort of epoxy primer on everything, or . . . who knows what! The problem with all these coatings is that they simply cannot get to the areas that need protection most after the car is all welded together. The only way to protect them is to coat them BEFORE the outer skin is welded into place. This requires "paint as you go". When I built the Cobra, I was truly amazed by the quality and adhesion of POR 15. This paint is simply amazing at protecting against further rust. I decided I would use POR 15 on all the hidden areas of the car where no one would ever see anyway! The downside is that POR 15 sticks to everything, and you can't get it off your skin. (I can't stand wearing latex gloves.) I researched POR 15 on their website, and determined that the Silver paint had the most filler built in, and would leave a better overall look than the gloss black (the most common color used.) I ordered up the metal prep and 1 quart of the paint. POR 15 cures due to contact to water, not air. Even though we have had more rain than usual this winter, our humidity is still much lower than most parts of the country. It would cure slower because of this fact.
I tried the metal prep on the drip rail. Since everything had been sand blasted, and the new metal was already cleaned by me, I wasn't sure that the metal prep was really necessary. After using it, I am still not sure. Metal prep is a euphemism for a Phosphoric Acid solution! Keeping it off my skin was very difficult. Keeping it off my clothing was impossible. I did my best to stay clean, but it got on the front of my shirt. It discolored the shirt and began to burn my skin. Needless to say, that shirt is gone and I took a shower! Bottom line, on perfectly clean metal, I didn't see that it made a lot of difference in terms of adhesion. Clearly on rusted metal it works very well. There were a couple small surface rust areas, and they cleaned up right away. THe stuff works, but be careful using it.
I put a first coat on the drip rail, the insides of the rear quarters at the bottom, and all the metal that would be covered and inaccessible after the rear quarter is installed.
This is the area that the drip rail will drain water if it gets in. This is the area that I fully coated with to deal with both primary water drainage as well as splashing.
It has now been 5 hours, and I am going to try to do a second coat. The directions say to wait 2-6 hours. It has been drying so slowly, I had time to come in an write these posts. Good use of time, I thought!!
About 90 minutes later . . .
Finished the second coat. Used 1/2 Pint less than the full quart today. Coated all the important parts so I can now finally weld up the drip rail and permanently install the rear quarter panels. Don't think I will get that done tomorrow. I want to let the POR 15 fully cure before I start messing with it. Some thoughts on Silver POR 15 vs Black POR 15. The black leaves a very consistent, powder coat like finish. The silver leaves a very nice finish, but it shows every run, sag, or imperfection in the underlying metal. Since none of this will ever be seen again, it really doesn't matter for my purposes, but just in case you decide to use it, beware. The metal flake that makes it "silver" also makes it prone to showing imperfections, brush lines (though not many), drips, or sags. I am very pleased with the finish, though I wouldn't want to stake my reputation on the perfection of the paint job. This is about protection against rust. I am absolutely sure that this is far more protection than the original car ever had in all these areas.
I did coat the interior of the rear quarters in those areas that are prone to water damage.
I can't believe it has been four months since my last update. 2020 is turning out to be the longest decade of my life! You would think I had plenty of time to work on this beast. You would be wrong! I can't remember working harder in my life. Ok, maybe not really, but my memory is going, and I sure can't remember the last time I worked this hard. I can't even remember all the steps that have been done in the last four months. First, a short list of what has gone been done:
The rear quarter panels are in place. They look pretty good. All the welds still need to be smoothed out.
The rear deck lid has been set into place. It is not actually attached, but the fitment lines are as close to perfect as I can ever hope for.
I ended up fully removing the front cowl, both upper and lower sections. I decided that I had come this far, and I didn't want to leave this one last piece of known rusted garbage on the otherwise rust free new car. I am glad I did. It was more rusted than I thought. The new one is in place, and almost fully welded in place. I ran out of welding gas, so I stopped before I finished.
I received the full front and rear frames from Mustangs to Fear. Great pieces of kit! very well made, fit perfectly. The front and rear frame pieces join together at the point where the rear suspension attaches, and create a fully end to end frame. Of course, all the parts that would be impossible to paint or powder coat after attachment were painted with POR 15 to prevent rust where I could not see it.
When I ordered the full frame from Mustangs to Fear, I also ordered the front radiator support and the full engine bay panels. The next piece to be installed is the Radiator support so that I can fit the engine panels. The problem is I think I missed a part. The radiator support panel is 1/2" too narrow to be fitted between the frame rails. In the MTF photos that I have been able to find, It looks like there is a large front rail that fits between the front frames and across the triangular jack pad in the middle front of the frame. . However, I didn't get this piece (if there is one) and I am not sure how to fit the radiator support. Suggestions?
I was informed that i was, indeed, missing the front crossmember. I ordered it, and Rich Smith of Mustangs to Fear sent me some photos of what it was supposed to look like. (Thank you Rich!!) So I installed it according to the photos and here is where I am:
Now here is the problem: I started clamping the radiator support and the engine panels into place to check fitment. Instead of the measured length of the 44.5" from the corner of the cowling to the front of the radiator support I have a whopping . . .
43 3/16"! Why am i over 1.25" too short?!! What am I missing?
Here is what I am am trying to figure: What is the base length of the frame rail from the point where the frame rail meets the firewall to end of the square channel? Like this:
(yes, I know my yard stick isn't long enough. It is for illustration purposes only.) So here is what I found. PS:
The answer, already known by the observant, is 46".
What about the DS?
You guessed it: 44 5/8".
Now the difference in lengths doesn't concern me much. The firewall very well may be 1 3/8" further forward on the drivers side than on the passengers. It doesn't look like that much, but the firewall fits snuggly on the frame, so I am not particularly worrried about it. What I can't yet determine is "are these the correct lengths for the frame rails for either side? The front cross member is 1.75" over the frame rail at the point where it attaches to the frame rails. I could move it forward 0.75", maybe even 1.0", but it would be well forward of where it appears that it should be based upon the MTF photos. Furthermore, I can only move it forward 3/8" before the tab on the crossmember meets the end of the frame side extension on the front. If I were to move the cross member even 0.75" forward, the tab would be well forward of the end of the frame side extension, but conceivably could Still be welded on. If I tried to move the cross member a full inch forward, the tab will be entirely forward of the end of the side extension, and could not be welded to anything. So to get back to the original, key question: What length are the frame rails suppose to be from the firewall to the end of the 3" Square tubing?
One other thought: Which direction are the top and bottom flanges supposed to face on the radiator support? I have them both facing the back of the car. Should they be pointing forward instead? This would pick up a full inch on the original measurement, but would not change the location of the radiator support panel, and thus it would not change the location of the side engine panels relative to the front suspension components.
Mostly finished with my mechanical work. Need to road test more then paint.
My guide was the Boss 302 chassis modification guide book.
Coil over front suspension with Shelby drop.
Monte Carlo bar.
One inch sway bar.
Eccentric eliminator kit.
Manual Rack and pinion...
Just picked up this 1969 Mustang Coupe. It looks pretty in pictures but needs a lot of little things fixed. It is a great start.
Here is a list of things I want to do:
Doors aligned so they close properly.
Rear end replaced/repaired (whining) and leaking (Probably an 8.8 replacement)...
I still have my first car, a '66 Tahoe Turquoise
C-code coupe with auto and a bunch of added options over the years. My parents helped me buy it when I was 16 and 1/2. The car has been reliable, useful and tons of fun... I drove it through high school, dating, to work, slow for grandmother's...
I posted a few months back to introduce myself and this project. Thought I would try to share my misadventures on here as this project creeps along. I don't post much, but I am getting pretty good at using the search feature to get my Mustang rebuild questions answered. Every question that i've...