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Discussion Starter #1
I was wndering if anyone has actually figured out the best front suspension for the 65-66 mustangs. Would the mustang 2 type SLA perform better or modified stock style(ie coilovers, S-or-T, Global West,etc..) Also has anyone built there own SLA front suspension from scratch? I have see the R/C motorsport front end and Heidt's. Just looking for opions not tech. Unless of course you built your own stuff I would love to see what you came up with.
Thanks Guys
Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Sorry if this topic has been beatin to death. Mainly I was wondering If anyone had attempted to build the M2 style suspension instead of buying it.
Thanks
Brian
 

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I'm sure it's been done. I think the 'big' question (or answer really) is; what's the application? What are your needs or goals?
 

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Life is too busy to re-invent the wheel. R&C just e-mailed me this morning that I should have my MII package early next week! :jump:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I like the R&C stuff, but I was looking at a tubular K member to reduce weight and allow a little more ground clearance. I like cars to sit low but only low enough to still perform correctly. I've thought about notching the frame rails to get it to sit lower with the MII suspension(ie musclecar road race mustang with Lou) but was looking for other options. The car will be agressive street/ open track car. I have owned this car since I was 18 and am just now getting to start to play with it at 40. I just want my car:). Thanks for the replies guys.
 

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67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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Might be just me, but I planned to mess around with some opentrack time, an MII type swap would not even be on the table. There are quite a few very capable vintage class racers running quite well on tracks with modified original suspension. I've noticed that other vintage Mustangs doing fun opentracking tend to stick fairly close to the original suspension design. Even ones with tubular A-frames and such are running bolt-on modifications. I'm not going by the maniacs driven to beat ALL the Corvettes no matter what it takes are using, the "money is no object" people, or any people like that.
 

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Might be just me, but I planned to mess around with some opentrack time, an MII type swap would not even be on the table. There are quite a few very capable vintage class racers running quite well on tracks with modified original suspension. I've noticed that other vintage Mustangs doing fun opentracking tend to stick fairly close to the original suspension design. Even ones with tubular A-frames and such are running bolt-on modifications. I'm not going by the maniacs driven to beat ALL the Corvettes no matter what it takes are using, the "money is no object" people, or any people like that.

1965 Mustang Fastback - Modified Mustangs & Fords

Don't be so quick to miss judge an MII suspension. Read the article on this build and especially this quote on page 2:

Lest you think Ron's car is only a cruiser due to the fact it has a Mustang II setup, you'd be wrong, as Ron open tracks the car whenever time permits. We witnessed Ron tearing up the road course at the Mustang 45th in Birmingham, Alabama, with his fastback, even passing some well-prepped track cars.
 

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I'm not trying to stir something up, but what is it about a mustang II front that people dont like? I've heard how bad it is over and over with no explaination why. I can see problems with the changed load paths by removing the towers, but with proper bracing (tubular down bars?) that shouldnt be a cause of concern. Is there something in the geometry of the MII itself that is the problem?
 

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Once you remove the springs from the equation of the shock towers, no bracing is needed. At that point, there is nothing inside them creating flexing and twisting. When I started asking about the MII suspension, I got a LOT of negative posts about them, but not one from anyone that owned a car with an MII suspension. I did however get some PM's from owners that have them and are completely happy with them and did not want to post just to keep the arguments down. Let me ask you this.....
The VMF has been around for how many years? How many users here have MII suspensions? How many posts have been made with photos of "collapsed frontends" or photos and writeups of other problems that have arisen from the MII type suspension? If they are weak, then how come Rod & Custom just shipped me the 100th order of 2011? If they were really not that good of a frontend and created problems, wouldn't word of mouth have already put this to pasture and them out of business?
Let me add: The modern conversions are not true "Mustang II" suspensions if you look at the lower control arm. Original MII was like an early mustang with a single pivot point and uses strut rods. Modern adaptations use a dual pivot point, or a "wishbone"? type lower control arm that removes the strut arm from the equation.
 

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67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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This isn't going too well. No I don't care much for an MII "type" conversion on a vintage Mustang. That being the case, why would I put one on my car? Nonsensical. I have driven other vehicles with them, a fiber body Ford hotrod comes to mind for one, and it was great. Pretty much what the vendor made the setup for.
I keep asking what makes people think the original suspension so bad? Ford used it until 1973, though a very similar version continued up to 1978-think Granadas. The MII design went into production in 1973, designed in 1971. Not all that modern to me. OK, any kit you buy isn't that design, but an improved upon version. The front suspension in my car is no longer a '67 version, I've improved upon it. So can anybody. And I choose to return it all to stock, it's just a matter of nuts and bolts and parts swapping. The big plus to an MII kit is getting rack and pinion steering, a big minus is that if you should change your mind or sell the car, going back to original would be an ordeal.
As for long term durability, you want to hang out in the hot rod forums. Been a while since I've seen a nasty MII failure picture but they're out there. I'll allow that the kit folks who are trying do make improvements on their products all the time. What tended to fail five-ten years ago with one vendor or another may not be a factor these days with different vendors.
As for the guy "even passing some well-prepped track cars", that means about zip. He's got a 347 stroker, a stripped down car, a 5 speed, big ol' disk brakes, IRS, etc. Most of those "well-prepped" track cars were vintage correct and/or vintage racing legal. That means vintage disk/drum brakes, 289's (NO strokers), iron four speeds, no fancy MSD ignition, stuff like that. If he couldn't pass a few cars, at least in the straightaways, then something is bad wrong with the world. Be interesting to see him run it against some fair competition though.
I don't know. Look through stuff from some vendors who have parts known to perform on roadcourses. See all the stuff to upgrade stock Mustang suspension. See all the lack of stuff for MII kits. That's not just me.
An MII type seems a viable option. People use them. They work. Some of the newer kits like from TCI appear to be well designed and engineered. I personally just feel they aren't the best choice for most vintage Mustang purposes. But I always wonder why owners who have installed one of these kits are so very defensive about them. Not as defensive as the folks with McPherson strut kits, but still.
I don't have a beef with strut rods, they are generally more robust than lower wishbones. Though I do like upgraded adjustables with rod ends better. I've noticed Honda seemed to like them enough to use lower arm/strut rod combos on however many cars they made between like 1976 and 2008. No matter, we all know what crummy cars Hondas are. Right?
Ahhhh, you guys just do whatever you like. It's OK. I'll do what I like, we'll all be happy. Nevermind.
 

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Ahhhh, you guys just do whatever you like. It's OK. I'll do what I like, we'll all be happy. Nevermind.
+1
OP has not stated a goal.
 

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GypsyR: I really didnt mean to stir anything up. For reference, I have a stock style front with roller spring perches, adjustable rod end strut rods, 68 disc spindles with 05 mustang brakes on my 65 coupe. With me it was about cost. I've got $80 in the strut rods, $25 in the roller perches, and $175 in the brakes.

I say that after many years of development the "good" companies should have their products bugs worked out. I still see weakness by removing the towers as the framerails were not designed to handle all that stress. Even boxing the frame wouldnt be enough for me as I believe some kits come with boxing plates.

A few weeks ago I welded in a MII kit in my father in laws 48 f100 so Im not totally against them. I dont see any major issues with that kit because its welded to a conventional frame. Not the best option, but its a truck not a race car.
 

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I would just love to see two very similar cars; one with a MII and one with a stock suspension with the typical upgrades that are so well known now, and see them compared in a real world test without regard to vendor advertising inputs..

John
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wow this went a little farther than I expected! I am looking to have the best possible handling mustang I can have while still have somewhat decent road manners. I didn't want to start and argument(sorry). I have seen how well the modified front stock suspension can be as well as the other options out there. Shaun's stuff from Street or Track looks realy good to me. I just like to see the car a sit a bit lower. If you look at most cars that handle really well they have a double wishbone suspension. Honda's and other Asian imports use strut rods alot(I work on Lexus). This is for cost savings and cushing of ride(liquid filled bushings). I like the MII design of some vendors but have noticed very little adjustability in their designs.
Anyway the goal for my car would be an aggressive street/open track car with half way decent road manners. I'm not looking for a Lexus style ride but don't want to get beat up either when I want to drive it around.
Everyone here has brought up good points for both sides. However I have not seen the failures anywhere out of the norm for any design. I haven't search real hard either. Strut rods fail, bushings fail, things break. That is normal for anything. Cars are mechanical and mechanisms fail, no way around it.
Anyway I like how this is going and have enjoyed reading your comments please continue if so driven. I personally like both designs. I see good in both. I'm just trying to see which way I want to go with things.
It's your car do with it what you feel right. Correct!?
Thanks Again Guys
Brian
P.S. I love this fourm! :)
 

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the M2 suspension is horrible for cornering. only advantage of the M2 suspension is you can put a wide engine like a modular or boss 429 in the car. btw even if you have the absolute best suspension on your mustang if you arent as good a driver as me or others we will lap you. i'm not trying to be harsh but there are rich guys that pay tens of thousands of dollars to get the best suspension that money can buy for there shelbys and mustangs only to be lapped by a great driver with a shoestring budget. i have ben at willowsprings and seen much money wasted on a car that the guy cant drive. if your not planning on drivng the car with the tires at the limit of adhesion(the point b 4 spinout) then its a waste of money. i use the 65-70 modified mustang suspension. i put a lot of years of hard practicing in to be able to drive like i drive. i dont use any fancy stuff. check this site out www.maecomotorsport.com these guys build and roadrace shelbys and mustangs and the good drivers are always front runners. the mustangs i have had and have never sit real low. i dont like dragging the frame rails and exhaust pipes on the street. 50% of the cornering speed is the driver. a mustang setup for track use will drive great on the street as long as the toe isnt set out. i know i'v doing this since 1973 when i got my first 66 mustang. my ford 2006 f350 dually pickup rides as rough as my roadrace mustangs have. another thing is the suspension has to be dailed in and that could take some time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have seen that site before and have looked at cobra automotive's website as well. I can't see why the M2 suspesion would be bad for cornering. I believe most purpose built race cars use a similar design now days(I could be wrong). I have also seen newer cars with multiple link and articulating front ends. I am not worried about being vintage legal. I know most of it comes down to driver also. In respect to ride height I'm not looking to SLAM the car, I just like it to be low and tight(think Porsche 911). I do love the look of the trans am cars thought. Anyway I liked the idea of the camparison of the suspensions, so I sent an e-mail to Modified Mustangs and Fords suggesting the article. Maybe if some others do the same they might do it....who knows.
Supershifter: I grew up in the SFV and never heard of the maeco guys, but then I haven't heard of alot of people. Do you use the heim joint stuff or another bushing style? I have been looking at OpenTrackers stuff as well as Street or Tracks stuff. I've gone and talked with Mike Maier also(really nice and knowledgeable guy). I'm just looking for a setup I'm going to be happy with.
Thanks
Brian
 

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I can't see why the M2 suspesion would be bad for cornering.
A arms are too short to give a good camber curve.
Anti dive is poor.
Not enough caster.
 

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14Charli,

I am with you on trying to figure the best set up. I am in the process of restoring a 66 coupe, and I am trying to research all the best options on what to do with my front suspension also. I get feedback from different people saying one thing and then something different from some one else. I have been toying with putting a rack and pinion in the car, but I just don't know. My purpose will be a daily driver with some occasional track use, but nothing crazy. I would like a lowered stance but not slammed to the ground either. I want it fun to drive not aggrevating.

I have also looked in to keeping it stock with just upgrading to modern technology and also looking at full coil overs. I just don't know, I wish I had the opportunity to drive or ride in different setups to see how they feel.

The other thing that I question is the whole manual verses power steering system. Some people say you don't need the power, the car is light enough without and it would make it too much if you added it. I just don't know.

I will be following this thread to see what comes up. I would appreciate any information you find concerning this.

Thanks,

Gary
 

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Supershifter: I grew up in the SFV and never heard of the maeco guys, but then I haven't heard of alot of people. Do you use the heim joint stuff or another bushing style? I have been looking at OpenTrackers stuff as well as Street or Tracks stuff. I've gone and talked with Mike Maier also(really nice and knowledgeable guy). I'm just looking for a setup I'm going to be happy with.
Thanks
Brian
maeco has ben around for over 20 years. there on eddy st. by the intersection of reseda blvd and parthenia st. maeco uses spherical rod ends and bearings in there suspension stuff. its not what a part looks like but the what it does to the tires in a turn to make them get maximum traction. all the maeco stuff is track tested since they also roadrace.
 
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