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I'm looking for a 351w or 351c. I'm not interested in 351m. I'm looking to buy the engine in Colorado Springs before the 15th of December and after that ill be looking in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. thank you, patrick
 

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Patrick, not sure if this is koha on a wanted advert BUT DON'T write-offf the 351M engine entirely, unless you have space constrainsts: with the RIGHT select parts it can but made to hook along quite nicely.Its just a Tall block 351C basically, Swap out the heads for a set of AU Australian Closed chamber 2V's (Small port, Smaller valves, but a Comp increase) use an old Edelbrock SP2-P 2 or 4V Torque alloy intake if in a truck or tall gears, Ed Perf or Weiand Accelerator & spacers, Small tube headers, Swapout the smog retarded timing gears for double roller, use the Std 351C 192/198°/110° Lobe Center Angle Can & up or the 204/214° RV Memling/Edelbrock Perf + type & up, your fav 2bbl orr 4bbl carb or injection if going that route, a hardened oilpump driveshaft, adjustable Crane rocker arm kit, 180-190° thermostat, electric Fan , Cold Air feed, & Quickened initial Dist spark curve kit if using original type dist & you'll have a different outlook on that Modified (sic) eng.
But each to their own.
351W will make better street engine cube for cube over 351C per $.
HRT.
 

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The 351M will require big block bellhousing. Now if you could find the rare 400 that came with e small block bell pattern then that's a different story. Even if I found one of those rare blocks I think I would sell it to fund a 351W. Just to many parts and a lot of good build information on the 351W.
 

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True, but you could always throw a curveball in the mix, get sensible , dare to be different & adapt a decent Powerglide behind that "big block bell housing " - there's more than enough torque & dragracers have gone that route for years - shock horror @#&% a Ford kissing up to gm hardware ? We can't have that :p..Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Patrick, not sure if this is koha on a wanted advert BUT DON'T write-offf the 351M engine entirely, unless you have space constrainsts: with the RIGHT select parts it can but made to hook along quite nicely.Its just a Tall block 351C basically, Swap out the heads for a set of AU Australian Closed chamber 2V's (Small port, Smaller valves, but a Comp increase) use an old Edelbrock SP2-P 2 or 4V Torque alloy intake if in a truck or tall gears, Ed Perf or Weiand Accelerator & spacers, Small tube headers, Swapout the smog retarded timing gears for double roller, use the Std 351C 192/198°/110° Lobe Center Angle Can & up or the 204/214° RV Memling/Edelbrock Perf + type & up, your fav 2bbl orr 4bbl carb or injection if going that route, a hardened oilpump driveshaft, adjustable Crane rocker arm kit, 180-190° thermostat, electric Fan , Cold Air feed, & Quickened initial Dist spark curve kit if using original type dist & you'll have a different outlook on that Modified (sic) eng.
But each to their own.
351W will make better street engine cube for cube over 351C per $.
HRT.
This engine is for my 1966 mustang was leaning towards a High out put 302 and now I’m leaning towards a 351w. I just want to go as fast as possible for my money. Any recommendations on if I’m making the right choice or if there a better engine for this swap. I don’t want anything to much bigger then a 351 because I don’t want to cut up the engine bay.
 

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This engine is for my 1966 mustang was leaning towards a High out put 302 and now I’m leaning towards a 351w. I just want to go as fast as possible for my money. Any recommendations on if I’m making the right choice or if there a better engine for this swap. I don’t want anything to much bigger then a 351 because I don’t want to cut up the engine bay.
Hey Patrick,
I had a hunch the engine bay was tighter rather than Fairlane/Falcon late 60's early 70's re mentioning my space constraints early on, glad writings didn't fall on deaf ears.
Well unless you had thought about going the 5.0 ex Fox body swapout with whatever drivetrain it comes with (& associated nickle & dime hitches: ecu wiring if not HO carb'd, running gas return lines to tank if efi'd etc & whatever smog passing laws req,)... you could duplicate what I did to a '65 Fastback GT350 Clone 'bout 20-25 yrs back: if you want to keep it more period piece & more Hotrodding angle ?( as don't know your abilities or if farming out) but I used Good 351W Block/heads, Std Souping technichs & fare: Doug Thorley/Ford Parts counter early style Try Y long tube SMALL Tube headers 1.5" inch Primaries, full length duals & you could run a Walker SoundFX dual in/out Muffler ala OEM in original spot behind diff on Ford intended mount factory type hangers, this keeps Interior Drumming & resonance to absolute minimum (Ford didn't do things for no reason) & pair tailpipes out back: try Autoplicity.com (for a good deal on mufflers & std route type pipes)..
Eng internals & externals were True roller timing set 4° advanced, Std 351W Heads With Modded Chev Inlet Valves, Polished Chambers & opened up Exh Ports, Milled 0.040", staggered 1.7/1.6 R/Rockers (forget which, SB Chev you usually use 1.6's on all 4 corners - idea comes from Winfield who ground his Flathead cams with various lobe profiles on 1 Cam suit eachh port flow) & Pocket Ported.IF you have the ready coin you Could use some twisted wedge alloy heads (used even, UNMODIFIED) OR fit those Edelbrock or Pressure tested New Speedmasters on later, depending on avail Gas quality aim (& cam) for 9.7-10.5:1 (with alloy heads) OR 180'ish psi CCR (cold cranking revs) give or take.
Total seal gappless rings was always my (reringer) secret, till word got out, so if on family mans budget, just go with Std moly top ringset & buying in a set 8 gappless 2nd rings, if tearing into block & not keeping short/long block together,check/measure everything + new rod bolts Pioneer hiPerf are fine.
Use Solid Lifters to match (expensive) 7,500+ rpm flat pin you to seat 505T oval track Cam: STILL streetable & pulls normally below 3-3500rpm then explodes above 3.5-4k rpm: 10" idle Vacuum & great gas economy driven lightly: 290°,254° @ 0.050" /108°Lca,Could always downgrade to an Enginetech @ 0.050" 231°/231°/110° LCA Approx 280° Advertised Dur 0.512 lift both Hyd Flat-tappet & cheap too IF Auto & Still want Racer Idle at lights- with GD springs, that Hyd @ 1.6:1 Adjustable rockers (Roller guided tip $50 diecast Rockers fine)
512" lift 2500-6500 Cam will spin to 6,500+rpm & 700-750rpm idle - With Lope, Good general streeter with cammy idle.
Competitiom Cams 268H/270H Hyd Auto NO stall w P/steer can't be beat.Keep lobe centers narrow on whichever Cam run.
Top end used Edelbrock Performer RPM or equiv Dual Plane W WELL TUNED 750 VAC SEC 3310 HOLLEY square bore (Model w 8 part # for kickdown lever) , used at Time Mallory Twin point with Advance curve kit (Mr Gasket Kit Springs + others) modded to 10° Initial Ign Timing & All in by 2,500 rpm & remember those Dist Leads etc ?: STINGER & left Accel quality wayyyy behind.
You could go with later MSD type Ign or IF on a budget a $ saved is $ earned & get relementwith STD dist with a Mr Gasket/RPC Advance weight & spring curve kit etc w.h.y ?.
You Could always go original look with 1 of these 289/271hp open eliment Air Filter w appropriate Ford type Decal (see pic) More internal detail: 2 thou across on b/e & mains & pistons to bores, GOOD rear main seal, NEW Melling oilpump With Stiff relief spring to give 10Lbs per 1,000 rpm, Stronger oilpump drive shaftCould always use a dual-idler geardrive for a bit of a blower whine/racier noise.

' used Std Flattops as Hypers were N/A in Std (& expensive at time) 351W's are pretty well balanced but DON'T go mixing/matching front yr model dampers - buy new over parts cntr.
Decent Radiator, GOOD fuel pump with 3/8". Inch lines IF sustained high revs...
That above COMBO over a souped 302 will give you more drivability/flexibility when it comes to DIFF ratio/TYRE Sizes.
I ran Wide ratio Toploader 4 Speed & 3.5:1 Gears with Mickey Thompsons out back: about 3k rpm at cruise - 75-80mph
Got 25mph mountain & fast hiway cruise , mixed with 505T Cam.U might find bit too lopey unless at least Manual 4 speed, only Car that kept with us 2 up was a 6/71 Blown 350 '56 Rodded Chev Shoebox ...
Hope this helps: you can do the 351W into the '66 on a budget or top $ - the old " how fast do you want to spend" applies - IF handy with a wrench, Space & Mrs Finance most satisfying build up is buying an old 351W powered Station wagon, getting the parts & NOT running to Napa & Pickapart every 5 minutes, Selling off unwanted to help fund/recoup ( INCL Mrs Financial controller, whoops TMI :p ) & DYI .
Hoot back if more Intel needed.
Apologies for length to others here.
Hope this general info helps - only its a combo that I know WORKS & will have pals fighting to drive it, period + bring home a trophy if wanted from run what ya bring day.
Goodluck
HRT
 

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Good on you Fitch for sticking with a 6cyl 200ci & 3 speed stick )I think more early mustangs came ordered this way than any other, gawd, that'll cause incoming !..
If your looking to Shop it up popular Ford Hotup artist at the time & parts developer for Ford (no not Shelby) Ran a great informative article in either Motortrend or Hotrod Mag at the time ( mid-late '60's) & he turned the 200 inches into a real "Runner" name escapes me but was popular at salt flats etc.
IF others interested go to pickapart & try & find a 70's Lincoln/Zephyr Cyl head (unleaded comparable) Pocket port it, mill 40-60 thou, use a bigger throat carb, tube (small) headers, trick oil, cold air induction & if smog laws allow quickened curve dist & you'll be seeing off a few V8's at the lights & maybe even fitting a wee torque strap ( truely).
Sorry if appear to hijack thread but new here & thought rather than lost in mix elsewhere.
.NOT. Ray Brock, Not Jim McFarland, NOT Cotton Owens :p ..it'll come to me!
Hey Patrick,
I had a hunch the engine bay was tighter rather than Fairlane/Falcon late 60's early 70's re mentioning my space constraints early on, glad writings didn't fall on deaf ears.
Well unless you had thought about going the 5.0 ex Fox body swapout with whatever drivetrain it comes with (& associated nickle & dime hitches: ecu wiring if not HO carb'd, running gas return lines to tank if efi'd etc & whatever smog passing laws req,)... you could duplicate what I did to a '65 Fastback GT350 Clone 'bout 20-25 yrs back: if you want to keep it more period piece & more Hotrodding angle ?( as don't know your abilities or if farming out) but I used Good 351W Block/heads, Std Souping technichs & fare: Doug Thorley/Ford Parts counter early style Try Y long tube SMALL Tube headers 1.5" inch Primaries, full length duals & you could run a Walker SoundFX dual in/out Muffler ala OEM in original spot behind diff on Ford intended mount factory type hangers, this keeps Interior Drumming & resonance to absolute minimum (Ford didn't do things for no reason) & pair tailpipes out back: try Autoplicity.com (for a good deal on mufflers & std route type pipes)..
Eng internals & externals were True roller timing set 4° advanced, Std 351W Heads With Modded Chev Inlet Valves, Polished Chambers & opened up Exh Ports, Milled 0.040", staggered 1.7/1.6 R/Rockers (forget which, SB Chev you usually use 1.6's on all 4 corners - idea comes from Winfield who ground his Flathead cams with various lobe profiles on 1 Cam suit eachh port flow) & Pocket Ported.IF you have the ready coin you Could use some twisted wedge alloy heads (used even, UNMODIFIED) OR fit those Edelbrock or Pressure tested New Speedmasters on later, depending on avail Gas quality aim (& cam) for 9.7-10.5:1 (with alloy heads) OR 180'ish psi CCR (cold cranking revs) give or take.
Total seal gappless rings was always my (reringer) secret, till word got out, so if on family mans budget, just go with Std moly top ringset & buying in a set 8 gappless 2nd rings, if tearing into block & not keeping short/long block together,check/measure everything + new rod bolts Pioneer hiPerf are fine.
Use Solid Lifters to match (expensive) 7,500+ rpm flat pin you to seat 505T oval track Cam: STILL streetable & pulls normally below 3-3500rpm then explodes above 3.5-4k rpm: 10" idle Vacuum & great gas economy driven lightly: 290°,254° @ 0.050" /108°Lca, Could always downgrade to an Enginetech @ 0.050" 231°/231°/110° LCA Approx 280° Advertised Dur 0.512 lift both Hyd Flat-tappet & cheap too IF Auto & Still want Racer Idle at lights- with GD V/springs, that Hyd @ 1.6:1 wAdjustable rockers (Roller guided tip $50 diecast Rockers fine)
512" lift 2500-6500 Cam will spin to 6,500+rpm & 700-750rpm idle - With Lope, Good general streeter with cammy idle.
Competitiom Cams 268H/270H Hyd Auto NO stall w P/steer can't be beat.Keep lobe centers narrow on whichever Cam run.
Top end used Edelbrock Performer RPM or equiv Dual Plane W WELL TUNED 750 VAC SEC 3310 HOLLEY square bore (Model w 8 part # for kickdown lever) , used at Time Mallory Twin point with Advance curve kit (Mr Gasket Kit Springs + others) modded to 10° Initial Ign Timing & All in by 2,500 rpm & remember those Dist Leads etc ?: STINGER & left Accel quality wayyyy behind.
You could go with later MSD type Ign or IF on a budget a $ saved is $ earned & get relementwith STD dist with a Mr Gasket/RPC Advance weight & spring curve kit etc w.h.y ?.
You Could always go original look with 1 of these 289/271hp open eliment Air Filter w appropriate Ford type Decal (see pic) More internal detail: 2 thou across on b/e & mains & pistons to bores, GOOD rear main seal, NEW Melling oilpump With Stiff relief spring to give 10Lbs per 1,000 rpm, Stronger oilpump drive shaftCould always use a dual-idler geardrive for a bit of a blower whine/racier noise.

' used Std Flattops as Hypers were N/A in Std (& expensive at time) 351W's are pretty well balanced but DON'T go mixing/matching front yr model dampers - buy new over parts cntr.
Decent Radiator, GOOD fuel pump with 3/8". Inch lines IF sustained high revs...
That above COMBO over a souped 302 will give you more drivability/flexibility when it comes to DIFF ratio/TYRE Sizes.
I ran Wide ratio Toploader 4 Speed & 3.5:1 Gears with Mickey Thompsons out back: about 3k rpm at cruise - 75-80mph
Got 25mph mountain & fast hiway cruise , mixed with 505T Cam.U might find bit too lopey unless at least Manual 4 speed, only Car that kept with us 2 up was a 6/71 Blown 350 '56 Rodded Chev Shoebox ...
Hope this helps: you can do the 351W into the '66 on a budget or top $ - the old " how fast do you want to spend" applies - IF handy with a wrench, Space & Mrs Finance most satisfying build up is buying an old 351W powered Station wagon, getting the parts & NOT running to Napa & Pickapart every 5 minutes, Selling off unwanted to help fund/recoup ( INCL Mrs Financial controller, whoops TMI :p ) & DYI .
Hoot back if more Intel needed.
Apologies for length to others here.
Hope this general info helps - only its a combo that I know WORKS & will have pals fighting to drive it, period + bring home a trophy if wanted from run what ya bring day.
Goodluck
HRT
 

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For the money and if I was in your position, I would recommend the 351W. THe aftermarket and used parts market is so cheap due to the massive numbers of Windsors on the market - exact same part numbers for 302W and 351W and there were a lot more Windsors made being the go-to motor for just about every Ford chassis. It just can't be beat for HP/$$$. Again, it really depends on what you are going to do with your car. the 351 is heavier than a 302 which effects handling, braking and acceleration. BUT you get some punch for the size to counter the acceleration. If you plan on agressive driving such as Autocross, I would suggest a 302 or stroked 302 (347) which can run with any 351. If you are going big numbers a stroked 351W really can't be beat HP/$$$.

Clevelands definitely have a cult following but are heavier and the used and aftermarket is not as cheap. They have a mystique of being stronger motors but its because the Windsors had restrictive heads out the factory so with some porting, cheap aluminum heads or even Cleveland heads they can easily match a similarly breathing Cleveland.

Good luck,

M
 

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I have a 351C with matching toploader, bellhousing, pressure plate, flywheel, clutch, shifter, etc. Was taken out of a 70 mach 1 a few years ago. not a lot of miles on complete overhaul, but has been sitting so I would suggest new bearings and gaskets. I have a complete engine kit as well. I'm in Tulsa area so if you don't find something in the next few days, I'm not far from Dallas.$3000 for all of it!!
 

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I have a 351C with matching toploader, bellhousing, pressure plate, flywheel, clutch, shifter, etc. Was taken out of a 70 mach 1 a few years ago. not a lot of miles on complete overhaul, but has been sitting so I would suggest new bearings and gaskets. I have a complete engine kit as well. I'm in Tulsa area so if you don't find something in the next few days, I'm not far from Dallas.$3000 for all of it!!
Hi Rich,
I'm working on a '69 Mustang Fastback in Austria/ Europe.
I want to put a 351C in it, which I already have from a previous project, but the C4 tranny, which came with the Mustang is peobably to weak for the motor, so I'd like to switch to a 4-speed toploader.
Would you consider selling the tranny, shifter and bellhousing separately, if still available.
Please let me know!
Thanks, Stefan
 

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C4's Are OK behind a STK to Mild 351C IF you treat it sensibly, add a Towing or Street level (Crisp shifts) Shift Improver kit or B & M trick kit along with their Race Fluid ATF additive & a remote trans cooler if your climbing up long Alpine passes & your 'Stang is reasonably lightweight - 1-2 up most of the time.
FAR less Power sapping than an FMX or Ridge back etc & in Austria Stefan I'd imagine a Shift Kit etc Package would be easier to procure ex UK, Belgium or Stateside than the weight/Size (freight) of a Pallet w Flywheel, clutch,Box,Shifter,Clutch/Pedal linkages etc req in your part of the world. Auto easier to drive on your ice too, Run wot ya got until it blows (if it does) then whole hog swapout: Its a big job UNLESS someone has shipped you a Complete kit Auto to Manual. Easier going the other way, with Pickapart to raid, up the road.
Think carefully b4 diving in.
Goodluck.
PS left or Right hand Drive ?.
High Rev Trev.
 

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Any engine bigger than a 302 block is a very tight fit in a 65/66. Do yourself a favor and buy a Summit Blueprint 302, 331 or 347. Whatever your budget allows. 30 month unlimited mileage warranty, proven parts and hp,
 

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Any engine bigger than a 302 block is a very tight fit in a 65/66. Do yourself a favor and buy a Summit Blueprint 302, 331 or 347. Whatever your budget allows. 30 month unlimited mileage warranty, proven parts and hp,
True, but the TA said he has a '69 Fastback, inbAustria, to work with - he's not in the lowest 48...
Cheers.
 

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Stefan, sorry just saw this. I sold the Cleveland and toploader 4 speed awhile back. If you want to switch, my opinion would be a T5 or better a T56. Let me know,
I could fix you up with a trans and complete kit.
 

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Thanks for your replies and suggestions!
You have to know that working on cars is not so liberally dealt with in Europe than it is in North America. I whish I could go 5 speed, but since all the vehicle components have to be period correct, I already wonder the Cleveland will be tolerated.
Since I do have the motor and the clutch and I don't want to be worried when jumping on the pedal, I'd rather go with a toploader.
Since transportation and shipping is quite complicated and costly, I'm looking for a package including tranny, shifter with linkage and bellhousing.
Pedal assy, hydraulic release bearing, slip yoke and the small drivetrain stuff I would order through CJ or mustangs unlimited.
 

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understood!! I have a couple other toploaders but they are for bigblocks 390/428 . lets me do some looking around, see what I can find for ya
 
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