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Discussion starter · #141 ·
well..... I took my car to a mechanic friend. I knew the timing was off, and that I had some valve lash issues. He got the timing spot on, but he said he wasn't getting anything on cylinder 2 and 7. So he pulls the valve covers today. I got about 5 bent pushrods. Gotta do a compression test tomorrow to see if I got any valve damage. got my fingers crossed.... as they were stock pushrods. I think in my haste, I forgot to prime the lifters before adjusting the valves. It kills me cause I spent so much on these heads.... It was a waste because I could have bought aluminum heads for all the work I did to these iron heads. I revalved them to 1.90 and 1.60 and I'm running the stock roller hydraulic cam. I used the 1.6 roller tip rockers so shouldn't have had any problems. I am just hoping there's no problem. Wish that it not having but a couple hours run time made a difference, but I doubt it does. I need to come up with a plan B. I am assuming that if I bent a valve, or 2 or more that it will cost me pretty much what I just spent on these iron heads. I'm not going to do that again. If it's a cheap fix, then ok but not several hundred dollars worth. I'll switch to Trick flow 170s or the AFR 165s. It just makes me sick to think I have to tear this thing all the way back down. FML
 
I have set the valve lash on 2 different engines without priming the lifters. What I did was start with the rocker loose and then slowly tighten the rocker nut with one hand while rotating the pushrod with the other. When you start to feel resistance, you stop and then tighten and additional 1/4 to 1/2 turn. If you do it with the intake manifold off, you can watch the tops of the lifters and see how much they are being compressed - they usually don't move too much. There is a sequence to the adjustments that you have to follow - I have found the easiest way to adjust the valves is to do it when both valves on the cylinder are closed. I rotated the engine 90 degrees at a time while watching the piston through the spark plug hole, adjusting the valves in the same order as the engine's firing order. The idea is to adjust the lash while the lifter is on the base circle of the cam. If you adjust at TDC of the compression stroke, both valves are shut so the lifters are on the base circle.

I measured my piston to valve clearance when I assembled my engine and found it to be quite adequate, but my pistons and the valve reliefs in the pistons are specifically designed for my heads. In order to bend the pushrods, you would need one of 2 things to happen - either piston to valve contact or the slot in the base of the rocker would have to hit the mounting stud. Either way you are putting a lot of force into places that shouldn't get it. If you cranked the rocker nuts all the way down, you probably did get contact somewhere. Hopefully it wasn't piston to valve contact - not only does it bend valves, but it can also crack and shatter pistons. Rocker damage is much easier and cheaper to fix since it may only require replacing the rockers. Either way, you need to track down exactly where the contact occurred.
 
Discussion starter · #143 ·
As with most things in my life, whatever can go wrong does go wrong. We checked compression, and I got bent valves. Compression of only about 60 and 75 pounds on 2 cylinders. My mechanic friend tells me its best to pull the motor since we got it down this far. I also have a waterpump leak to deal with. I think water is just running down the threads. It will be a lot easier to deal with that out of the car as well. So I'm at a crossroads. I didn't go through the bottom end of this motor when I got it. I checked wear on the cylinders and it was minimal. you couldn't hang a fingernail on the top of the cylinder. So what do I do now. Put a few hundred more in these iron heads, that Ive spent too much money on already or order Trick Flow TW 170s. Trickflow recommends their pistons which is another $600. Then add the cam, the valve guides, valve covers, and you need the intake to take full advantage of the setup. If I need to go through the bottom end of this, I may as well get a shortblock. Mission Auto here in town is a pretty well respected machine shop. They have a 5.0 shortblock, that's balanced, blueprinted, with E303 roller cam, cobra rods, and the pistons are heat treated for $1400.... Non balanced is $800. I could probably change up some things on the balanced one. Like dished pistons, instead of Trick flow ones. I can get the Trick flow cam for about $200. I could hold off on intake till later, but then the core would all be good. This car is going to be a daily driver. Its not gonna see the track. Running on 6 cylinders it was pretty strong. If I go new block and heads thats about $2600 plus cam and then I re-use some items that I can change as weekend projects. If I go cheap, and just hone the cylinders, freshen the rings, fix the heads probably just $5-600. I don't know what I'm going to do.... open to suggestions.
 
I would go with a fresh engine - yours rebuilt or one from the machine shop. I have no idea what "cobra rods and pistons" are? For your application, factory rods with ARP bolts is good to go. Pistons would have to be matched to the cam/head design.

Many parts can be re-used. Intake/exhaust/valve covers/timing chain cover/water pump/oil pan/carburetor....these things add up to big bucks when going with a new engine. You are money ahead of a "start from scratch".

Keep your chin up and learn from this....maybe someone can help you go over everything before the next start up? An experienced eye is priceless in this situation.
 
I would go with the trick flow 170 heads and rebuild your bottom end. You have the majority of the hard work done I.e. wiring and placement of all the components. I am currently doing this set up in my 66', and just ordered the trick flows with there entry level cam, speaking with the summit racing tech and trick flows tech they assured me that the stock pistonswould have no clearance issues, with this cam head combo. The 170's are goin for 600 a head right now whitch is a fair price for a good head. I am a newbie to posting but I have been reading your threads for a while now.
 
Discussion starter · #146 ·
Ok Im narrowing things down a bit. Seems the machinist that did the heads, wasn't as good as I was lead to believe he was. I had to get adjustable guide plates to get pushrods to line up. we set the lash and tested the compression on cylinders 5-8. all were showing between 50-55lbs. I honestly can't believe that. There is just no way it would have had as much power as it had with no noticeable blow by. My compression gauge is brand new, but I'm doubting its readings. So going to get another one and double check. I think I'm going to just get the thing running, as inexpensive as I can, and build another motor. Aside from compression, the most worrisome thing was that the valve springs weren't all at the same height. This leads be to believe bent valve, but all the cylinders were so close in value. So, I'm going to put it all back together and double check the compression. If the numbers are correct, then I think I'll pick up a shortblock, and have these heads "fixed". Short block is $800 and a couple hundred to fix the heads.

I called trick flow this morning. I honestly can't afford to do that build now.$1400 for balanced shortblock, $1200 for the heads, $200 for the rockers, $150 for the lifters, $85 for valve guides, $115 for pushrods, $209 for the Cam, and I quit pricing it there but also need Head bolts, 30# injectors, Calibrated Maf, New tune and new Harmonic balancer....... that's the minimum to make it run with other upgrades needed like new throttle body, and intake which is about $700 or so. Then all that power would probably eat my transmission, and I still need to upgrade the rear gears and put new tires and rims on.
 
Ed,did you have the throttle opened fully while testing compression?
Then 4 cycles on each cylinder.
What heads are on your engine? I thought you had 5.0 heads with factory type bolt down rockers.
 
Discussion starter · #148 ·
I finally caught a break. I knew this thing ran too good to be that low on compression. Tried a new compression gauge today. Got between 152-155 psi on all cylinders. My heads are stocks that I had revalved to 1.92 and 1.54 or 1.60 cant recall which. With pedestal mount roller rockers. Still not happy with the machine shop. They knew their valve guides wouldn't work. The guy even made a comment about sometimes you have to machine the guide to line up the pushrod. The stock pushrods wore half moons in those guides with under 2hrs run time. I got new comp cams valve guides and hardened pushrods now. Got them lined up nicely yesterday before checking the compression. I had resigned myself to just putting it back together and driving it till it blows. My mechanic is getting the valves adjusted tonight and we'll get the intake put back on so I can move on to next step.

Hey Lance! Yes, throttle was opened fully, in the sense you have to remove the upper intake to take valve covers off. Some of the problem is me arguing with my mechanic.... he was ready to jump to conclusions, and I just felt there was no way it could have been that bad. And then being discouraged. While you are here.... I need some input about your tire/rim combo. I did the UCA drop on the front, and I cut down the stock spring a bit, the front end is just perfect with the stock tires. I need to drop the rear about 2 inches. I'm actually thinking 1" and then go with larger tires in back. Here's the deal. The AOD is lugging pretty bad in 3rd or OD not sure which as I can barely feel it shift. Only turning about 1050 at around 55 mph (not sure, we never hooked up VSS wires. LOL its on the list) I've decided to change the rear end gears. I was going back and forth between 3.55 and 3.73. I went to a website that calcs final drive rpm based on tire size, speed, final drive ratio etc. with 3.73s and a 17" rim tire size was close to 26" which offset the lower gear ratio and I had a 60mph ratio around 2k rpm. I like sidewall on my tires. so the 17s aren't my favorite. I really like the 16s. trouble is, I can't get 16s in a "package" and I dont want to spend 1000 for rims and $6-700 for tires. But I think I'm going to end up with the 17s. My concern is with the front with the 17s. Rear should be fine. what are you running up front? I'm assuming you did the UCA drop not sure of the rest of your set up though. I went to dodgestangs collection of pics and database but the pics arent matched to the database to tell me what tires are on what, so Im needing real world exp. In the 15" rim/tire combos, most are in the 23-24" range IIRC. I don't think Im going with rear discs so 15s would work. I can do the 3.55s and its in a decent rpm range at highway speed with them. My favorite rim is in the 15" category... lol just no package either. I like that Torque Thrust D in Anthracite (the torque thrust M is the 17" version). The 15s (as I understand) can run a 15x8 in back and 15x7 up front with out much trouble. 17s are only in 7" wide...
 
Discussion starter · #149 ·
So excited about my engine not being trashed, I ordered the third member from TJ. He confirmed what I was thinking. 3.55 gears with the trac-lok. Will be here Monday.
 
That's quite a relief to know that your engine is fine. It must feel good. Looking forward to meeting you and swapping stories!

Unfortunately, mine won't be running until I get the updated tune for the EEC. It's dumping a ridiculous amount of gas in the engine now.
 
Discussion starter · #151 ·
Woo hoo! So I spent the day, putting on rockers, checking alignment and geometry, take off lifter move guideplate. Reinstall, check again.... etc. Got everything on the money. Got the lash set. Put it all back together, and fired it up. Sounds bee E A Utiful. I'm so happy now. I got the third member coming in wednesday along with the tires and rims..... time to start wrapping up.
 
Awesome! Sounds like it was no big problem after all. Good luck with the wrap-up. i don't have to tell you how good it feels to get to the end and finally enjoy what your hard work has made.
 
Discussion starter · #153 · (Edited)
Finally got photobucket working again. I got the new tires and rims on today. Some before and after pics.

[URL=http://s124.photobucket.com/user/txtrailerdaddy/media/null.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s124.photobucket.com/user/txtrailerdaddy/media/null-1.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s124.photobucket.com/user/txtrailerdaddy/media/null-2.jpg.html][/URL]

And the new shoes.

[URL=http://s124.photobucket.com/user/txtrailerdaddy/media/null-4.jpg.html][/URL]


It looks like I need to replace front springs, or at the very minimum put a 1 inch spacer on the front. Tires dont rub, but will on hard cornering or a pot hole as I can barely fit my fingers between top of tire and fender.

I also got the shock tower brace from mustang depot installed. It was a royal pain to install. Shock tower part wasnt bad. Holes in cowling didn't quite line up. Then when I put the monte carlo bar on, it hits the hood. So I took that off. I also need to replace the hood springs as it decided to bend. Now, I cant get hood to line up and close all the way. Not too worried about the monte carlo bar. when I did get it on, I could get the bar to flex so it doesn't appear that it will do all that much for me. I will get pics up later, now that i know photobucket is working again.

I changed the oil today as well. Since I had antifreeze in there from the rocker studs that were drilled into the water jacket. Had the oil pressure gauge go on the fritz and the service engine light is on now..... so one step forward and 2 steps back. Par for the course.
 
Discussion starter · #155 ·
ok few more pics.

Shock tower brace.



pic of my exhaust.



Tonight I order the roller perches and the springs because my front tire rubbed backing under the carport tonight. I got the rear end on jack stands and I'm going to pull the axles and the third member tomorrow. Once I get everything cleaned up my 3.55 limited slip pumpkin is going in.
 
Discussion starter · #157 ·
lol forgot about that. Yeah. I need some restriction for the maf. I have the filter but it has a metal mesh on it, which is conductive, and I haven't relocated the battery to the trunk yet.
 
Discussion starter · #158 ·
Ok. So here's the update. The front tires rubbed when I was just backing the car under the carport to put in the rear gears. So, I ordered 1" drop 620 springs cause I saw a number of people with my tire setup had done the same with no problems. While I was in there I got a set or roller spring perches too. I did not cut any coils even though a lot of people said they'd cut about 1/2 a coil. They don't appear to rub, but its still close. I just suspect the car wont dip much, but it still may rub. Probably gonna have to roll the fender to keep out of it. Also had a bent hood hinge, so I ordered replacements there too. Got all that in now. I still need to adjust the hinges, but was done messing with it for now. Dropped the gears out and put in the 3.55 LS today. It was raining, so I couldn't really do much with it. Also noticed I got water leaking around the windshield. So I need to deal with that, since its a daily driver. Had a problem with the oil pressure guage. It quit working. So I called Dakota Digital and they say they are sending me a new set. I need to get the front end aligned, get seat belts in, move battery to the back, and finish up the interior. After that I'm done. At least for a while. Also noticed I got a check engine light.... but I think that's due to my custom air filter.
 
TX I think you may have a hard time convincing the audience of that... not sure any mustang owner has stayed truthful to those statements :pirate:
TRUTH!! I feel like my car is done, but it seems like I'm always finding some little thing I forgot. If it's not something I forgot, it's something like the clip popping off on the pin the connects the window regulator to the scissors, which makes me have to pull the door panel so that I can reattach it. I'm just about there, but at least the car is drivable now.

Glad to see that you are making progress, Ed. My car is finally running and I've got about 6 miles on it now. I found a small issue when I was looking at the log data from the EFI. I am running the original metal tubes on the intake manifold that carry coolant to the heater core, and my engine coolant temperature sensor is mounted in one of those tubes. The problem I ran into is the Vintage Air system had me install a shutoff valve in the heater core lines to stop coolant flow to the heater core whenever max cold is selected. The problem with this is that it also stops coolant flow past the ECT sensor. My ECT was reading a steady 166F, even though the coolant was really closer to 200F. Because of the erroneous value, the computer wasn't adjusting the spark, fuel, and air properly for a warm engine and my engine would keep dying at idle whenever it was hot. I relocated the ECT to the intake manifold, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
 
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