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Need some serious advice folks.

2906 Views 43 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  graywolf_14, 
Pmustang
Okay. Bit of a story first. Car is a 1967 GT fastback. I bought it out of GA USA after looking for a while for a good solid car i could buy and enjoy My goal was to get a nice solid car that had some looks and drove well. I paid top dollar for a car with the right options and seemingly correct condition. What i got on the other hand was this Well here's the rub

The good.
Factory red GT with tach dash. Upper and lower consoles and other assorted goodies
As far as I can tell after gutting the interior for a look see the shell itself is very solid with perfect original floors and great condition in most all usual problem areas. Firewall, trunk floor, below rear glass perfect
Decent running highly detailed incorrect year (1966) 4bbl engine. 289 with pony restored correct carb. Alloy cobra intake. 4 speed.
Well detailed driver car both underneath and in the engine bay.
Interior vary nice
Reams of receipts for new parts. New suspension and all trim

The bad
Front crossmember bent to hell but no damage to frame rails or surrounding metal. Definitely needs replaced.
Drivers side inner fender has been wrinkled. Not horrid but needs massaging. With this it would not hurt to replace front panel as top edge is damaged and would allow for access to the inner fender
Paint is a 20 year old job. It was good in the day but is now a ten footer. Well applied with no overspray but scratched and chipped
Engine sounds and looks great but not powerful at all. Car came with a dyno sheet showing 165 flywheel HP which I am told is about right for a stock 4bbl 289
Doors are crap. I have new ones coming over as these are patched but not repairable to a correct level
Hood is wrong for a delux exterior car. I have a new one coming over
Rear quarters have a small amount of bondo at the very back edge along the wheel well
Steering box is both incorrect ratio and sloppy. Have a re built box coming over.
Front quarters although very solid vintage units are not original to the car and have filled mustang script holes. You can't see them from the exterior but I knw they are there
Seats are non comfortweave but should be so I assume they were recovered at a time the material was not available.

Okay. Still with me?.

I have quite a bit of money in the car at this point. Well over 40k US and probably closer to 45 with the parts I have bought. (remember I had to ship and pay taxes on it).

Where I am a now is that I am both unhappy with the performance, the paint and the body issues on the car. I could pay to get the, corrected but it pains me to do so as I was after a car that did not need this done ( an inspection is cheap insurance folks although a friend had an inspection on his and has similar problems)

The thing I don't want to do is get critically buried financially in the car. I am happy to get a foot buried but don't want to go the whole 6 feet I have done it before and it's not a fun place to be. I know some will say its a hobby and life is short but going at it the way I am I will have 50k united kingdom pounds in the car and that's just foolish. That would be a stroker motor. Body and paint.

Okay. I currently have a stroker motor on order and was going to sort out the body and paint in the future. The motor build has not been started so I can redirect if needed

The new motor was going to be 7k pounds which is approx 10,500 USD. now I have had 20k USD ngines built in the past but I am now thinking I could either order a 302 based short block from the staes or better yet do some work on the current 289 to wake it up and then not have to deal with selling the current engine or changing the current exhaust at large expense for the stroker I had planned.

I am thinking I could freshen up the current engine. Do the bits of body work and stay more within budget.

If you read on this long I appreciate it. I have done so many projects that I am a bit gun shy at this point in regards to just writing checks.

Any comments or suggestions on how to move forward most welcome. Thanks folks. Peter
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S
Peter,
you have a lengthy post. Trying to figure what you thought you bought. You describe a ton of stuff that needs doing. Did you expect a concours mechanically perfect car? Or was the description by the seller fairly accurate but you overpaid?

You started out saying your goal was a solid car with some looks that drives well. Sounds like that's what you got but paid too much.


Slim
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Pmustang
Seller claimed the car was show quality with all original sheet metal. Said the paint was old with only a few defects. I paid solid driver/show quality money. Could I have paid more for worse? Yes quite easily. But just trying to fix the problems in the most economical way possible.

I spoke to the owner before the dealer and he was aghast at the way it was advertised. I have read other adverts this dealer has since and the theme is always the same. I can now see through his jargon.

I did not expect concours as i know that would be 60k US to buy such a car but I did not expect a destroyed front xmember. Bondo in the rear quarters which was something I talked to them at length about (my number one concern was solid original rear quarters and certainly did not expect doors from truk lagoon. Nor did I expect downright dangerous steering. The paint is much worse than described as well.

The engine power is my issue and not the dealers.

It's not a hunk of crap but could easily swallow 20k to fit the description from the auction. . I think I overpaid for what it is. Has I paid what the guy before the dealer sold it to the dealer for I would be golden.
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Stevea
I would just put some dollars into the engine you have and drive it.
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Pmustang
That's my thinking. Maybe a 3.50 gear in the rear to liven up the 3.00 and some light mods to the engine I have driven quite a few 289s that have some good power. . Cheers Peter
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Kelly_H
It sucks to hear that you got taken by that dealer, but it definitely could have been worse. The good part is that you have a very solid car that needs minimal bodywork (as compared to some of the other cars being restored on this forum).

I think that livening up the 289 is your best option if you don't want to be in it deep. 165 seems on the low side to me. Rebuild it with a good top end kit and you'll be a lot more pleased with it. The 3.50 rear will go a long way too.
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M
pictures of this 40k USD car you bought?
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S
I'm sympathetic. In fact I can't imagine buying a car from across the ocean, especially without having a 3rd party inspection. As I'm sure you know the "value" of top condition (near concours) classic is usually at least 3 times the "value" of a nice condition "no rust" driver.

In my experience so called classic car dealers often over rate the car they're selling by up to a full class. The car they ask $30,000 for may be a stretch at $15,000.

For example my 68 sig vert has no mechanical issues. NOS RF fender and quarters done in 1995 along with torque boxes, inner rockers front floors and frame rail repair. The rest is mostly original including paint. Put on new top in 2005 along with bucket upholstery repair and new carpet and door panels. Bumpers new from NPD.
I rate my car at low retail...$12,000.

My advice is if your fastback is basically what you wanted and is solid/usable what you spent/paid is sunk cost. Has nothing to do with the future. It's like if you own some stock that that you paid $50/share in 2005. Now it's selling for $20/share. That's where it is now.

Have fun with your 67 GT Fastback, face it your budget on it was shot when you bpought it! Do it right from now on!


Have a Happy New Year,
Slim
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Pmustang
3
Don't talk to me about the stock market. I've lost a Shelby there give or take haha.




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S
Pmustang said:
Don't talk to me about the stock market. I've lost a Shelby there give or take haha.




Click to expand...

Are you retired? We've lost about 40% of our retirement, no way to get it back! But we thank God for what we have, young people may never be able to retire at all!!!



Slim
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Pmustang
I guess I should say I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I have bought dozens of classics and many from photos on eBay. I was shown 105 photos and two videos. I was told the sheet metal was all original. At some pointbyou have to trust folks With the quality shown in the photos i never assumed the doors would be horrible nor was the front cross member shown (i mean who has seen nice front rails and a mangled front crossmember? When you know a cars defect areas you know the areas that go on all of them show me the inside of the rear quarters the front corners of the doors and the top of the inner fenders and you get some sort of idea what the car is like The paint looked amazing in the photos but is full of age related defects. The seller had an amazing story on the car plus it's previous ownership states told me a story I wanted to believe. Who would think a car that looked that good would have deadly steering? The car sounded the nuts in the vid so I thought the engine would have something to back it up. All assumptions and no one to blame but myself. Lets just say the doors were not crap and there was no bondo in the rear quarters and the paint was as described that would erase 90 percent of my problems those small omissions by the seller could easily cost me ten grand. Peter
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zray
I'm sorry you don't like the car. Surprises like that hurt the wallet and dampen enthusiasm. Fix the engine and drive it for a few years. Maybe the market will rise and pay for your mistake.

I would be remiss unless I mention you have no one to blame but yourself for not inspecting the car IN PERSON. And even if you had paid someone for an inspection, like your friend did, it is a not a substitute for a personal inspection, it should only be a supplement for your own personal inspection. I paid for an inspection once, but didn't fork over any cash for the car until I had inspected the car myself, even though the paid inspector gave the car the green light.

If you can't travel to the car, don't buy it. no exceptions.

Z.
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zray
slim said:
".......My advice is if your fastback is basically what you wanted and is solid/usable what you spent/paid is sunk cost. Has nothing to do with the future. It's like if you own some stock that that you paid $50/share in 2005. Now it's selling for $20/share. That's where it is now.
........."
Slim
Click to expand...
and the OP hasn't "lost" any investment unless he sells, just like the stock market.

Z.
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Pmustang
Slim. I won't argue with your logic. I am 43 and not retired. I lost a crapload of money in the market and my father a crapload and a half. I can spend the money on the car if that's the end decision. I have that piece of luck on my side. It's not a matter of can I but, a matter of should I? The bitter taste of being screwed also Is a bit fresh I've been screwed before and I will get over it.
I am just looking to cost effectively get the car to where I would like it to be if not close.

Would be interested to hear what can be done to the 289 to get it a bit more lively. I assume heads and a cam and headers would be a start. i have done a paxson in the past and it sapped too much low end for my tastes? I've been looking at buying a crate engine but something from the engine factory comes in near what I would be spending by the time its here.

Cheers. Peter
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Pmustang
Unfortunately I had stock in Lehman Bros so the decision to lose the money was out of my hands. The company I owned stock in was bought by Lehmans and was converted to Lehman stock and was also restricted so I could not sell.

Thankfully I did well in other areas of the market.

ZRAY I do live in the UK so a personal inspection would have been tough. But you are spot on. It's my fault for not getting a pro inspection. In this case I did not have the time available as the car would have sold to someone else on the bay but again I should have left it although nothing I saw rang any bells in terms of being a problem.
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S
Pmustang, it's evident that you understand this. If I paid $30,000 for a car or $10,000 for it really has little to do with it's real value today. Same as if I paid $100/share for a stock that's selling for $30/share today. It's what happens in the future that matters.

See I'm among the wierdo's that are in the hobby for tradition, love/like the 60s/70s vintage cars, not to make a buck!


Slim
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zray
Pmustang said:
"....Would be interested to hear what can be done to the 289 to get it a bit more lively. I assume heads and a cam and headers would be a start. i have done a paxson in the past and it sapped too much low end for my tastes? ........"
Click to expand...
set up right you shouldn't lose any power at any rpm (over 1,200-1,300) from a vintage Paxton. In only a hundred rpm or so they are making much more power than it takes to turn the pulley. At 2,000 rpm I'm producing 2 lbs. boost, at 3,000 rpm it's over 3 lbs. Jetting is not always easy and you have to be patient to get 100% of the potential.

Otherwise, If you've decided against supercharging, for about the same amount of money, in your place I'd get a set iron heads that have bigger valves, and flow decently, like these:

World Products 053030-1 - World Products Windsor Jr Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com

another cam suited to your needs

a 650 Holley carb

a 2.5" free flowing exhaust system like the magnaflow stainless

that should be enough to add substantial horsepower increase over what you have now at a cost of only $1,500 for all the about items.

Z.

p.s. re my previous post; I've been ripped off on a car purchase before, so I'm not unsympathetic to what you are going thru. Just vow to learn from your experience. No one gets thru life without a few scars...

Z.
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Pmustang
I love classics as much as the next guy? My parents always had a classic mustang when I was a kid. My first car after college was a 66 convertible. . I have been totally out of the classic mustang fraternity for ten years and just sold my 2007GT500 to come back in. That should tell you about my commitment level. It is not easy to import and road register a vintage car over here so you have to want one. I doubt I have made money on any mustang I have owned and most have soaked me. Not looking to make money here. Maybe I have told to much of the story and you think I am just whining about a deal that went sour.

I should have just written that I was rethinking my plan to spent over 10k US on a 347 stroker. What can I do to my 289 4bbl engine to liven it up a bit? As I am looking for more performance.

Cheers. Peter
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6
PMStang, I think your car looks awesome, 40k awesome i'm not so sure but awesome none the less. I payed just short of 20 for mine (64.5 convertible), inspected it myself and missed a number of things. I guess you never really know everything until after you own it. The bodywork frame and undercarriage were all really solid on my car but the electrical system was a spliced up mess. lots of shortcuts were made in the restoration and I'm slowly sorting things out. Luckily its mostly mechanical and stuff I can repair. I'd consider a crate motor or maybe rebuilding your current motor- if you can do much of the work yourself. A gear change will live things up in a hurry but at the price of milage. Learn all you can and enjoy your great car and you will figure things out in time. John
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My427stang
Valid buyers remorse, and understand the last post, maybe you did "say too much" , it did sound like you were complaining more than asking if you could make the 289 run

However, here is what I would do, and I'll fill it full of metaphors LOL

1 - Slow the boat down - cool down a bit and think about what you dont like the most
2 - Determine if you'll cut your losses or fix it
3 - If the motor is your biggest concern, you can make a 289 run pretty darn strong, but you need to think about how you want the motor to run. Rev like a racer with short gears? or more torque?
4 - Once you decide that, eat the elephant.... one bite at a time. My hunch is gears and a distributor recurve first. Then get into matching the cam with intended use, then see what else you want

A set of efficient small port heads, recurved distributor, a modern cam indexed to take advantage of whatever compression it is, headers and a set of gears will transform it
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