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Need some serious advice folks.

2916 Views 43 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  graywolf_14, 
Pmustang
Okay. Bit of a story first. Car is a 1967 GT fastback. I bought it out of GA USA after looking for a while for a good solid car i could buy and enjoy My goal was to get a nice solid car that had some looks and drove well. I paid top dollar for a car with the right options and seemingly correct condition. What i got on the other hand was this Well here's the rub

The good.
Factory red GT with tach dash. Upper and lower consoles and other assorted goodies
As far as I can tell after gutting the interior for a look see the shell itself is very solid with perfect original floors and great condition in most all usual problem areas. Firewall, trunk floor, below rear glass perfect
Decent running highly detailed incorrect year (1966) 4bbl engine. 289 with pony restored correct carb. Alloy cobra intake. 4 speed.
Well detailed driver car both underneath and in the engine bay.
Interior vary nice
Reams of receipts for new parts. New suspension and all trim

The bad
Front crossmember bent to hell but no damage to frame rails or surrounding metal. Definitely needs replaced.
Drivers side inner fender has been wrinkled. Not horrid but needs massaging. With this it would not hurt to replace front panel as top edge is damaged and would allow for access to the inner fender
Paint is a 20 year old job. It was good in the day but is now a ten footer. Well applied with no overspray but scratched and chipped
Engine sounds and looks great but not powerful at all. Car came with a dyno sheet showing 165 flywheel HP which I am told is about right for a stock 4bbl 289
Doors are crap. I have new ones coming over as these are patched but not repairable to a correct level
Hood is wrong for a delux exterior car. I have a new one coming over
Rear quarters have a small amount of bondo at the very back edge along the wheel well
Steering box is both incorrect ratio and sloppy. Have a re built box coming over.
Front quarters although very solid vintage units are not original to the car and have filled mustang script holes. You can't see them from the exterior but I knw they are there
Seats are non comfortweave but should be so I assume they were recovered at a time the material was not available.

Okay. Still with me?.

I have quite a bit of money in the car at this point. Well over 40k US and probably closer to 45 with the parts I have bought. (remember I had to ship and pay taxes on it).

Where I am a now is that I am both unhappy with the performance, the paint and the body issues on the car. I could pay to get the, corrected but it pains me to do so as I was after a car that did not need this done ( an inspection is cheap insurance folks although a friend had an inspection on his and has similar problems)

The thing I don't want to do is get critically buried financially in the car. I am happy to get a foot buried but don't want to go the whole 6 feet I have done it before and it's not a fun place to be. I know some will say its a hobby and life is short but going at it the way I am I will have 50k united kingdom pounds in the car and that's just foolish. That would be a stroker motor. Body and paint.

Okay. I currently have a stroker motor on order and was going to sort out the body and paint in the future. The motor build has not been started so I can redirect if needed

The new motor was going to be 7k pounds which is approx 10,500 USD. now I have had 20k USD ngines built in the past but I am now thinking I could either order a 302 based short block from the staes or better yet do some work on the current 289 to wake it up and then not have to deal with selling the current engine or changing the current exhaust at large expense for the stroker I had planned.

I am thinking I could freshen up the current engine. Do the bits of body work and stay more within budget.

If you read on this long I appreciate it. I have done so many projects that I am a bit gun shy at this point in regards to just writing checks.

Any comments or suggestions on how to move forward most welcome. Thanks folks. Peter
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Pmustang
Zray that's very helpful thanks. Is it not worth getting my current heads ported? The cost of the stuff is not so much the problem as importing it and the tax and customs costs. Would alloy heads give the same result as those mentioned? If I could buy a set of those I lose some front end weight and could possibly use them on a future 347 build if I decided later that was the way to go.

15 years ago when I had a Paxton put on the 289 in my convertible the speed shop told me it took 50hp to turn it. Maybe they were full of it the car was decidedly weaker on the low end after the install.


Cheers for the info. Peter
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Pmustang
My427. You have me too a T. I rush in then repent at leisure.

Your suggestion closely matches the one above and certainly seems to be the direction I should take.

I keep looking at everything that needs to get done in one lump sum and it's quite daunting. I think I will get the front crossmember and inner fender sorted. Put in the new steering box and get the front end geometry sorted then put on the TCP subframe connectors I bought to stiffen it up then look at gears and some top end work on the motor.
Thanks for calling me down from the cliff. Peter
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tazzilla
Well I read it all and must say it sounds like a bad deal but like they say when given lemons make lemonade. You have a great car and they are getting fewer and harder to find so take that lemon and make some of the best lemonade out of her. What is done is done. I am a horse trader by heart and have made a many good trades and every now and then I screw up. Its the screw ups that make us better traders in the long run. Take this as a cheap lesson in life and raise your head up and enjoy that new pony.
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tom991
I vote yes on livening up the 289 that's in it now. A set of flat top pistons, new rings, bearing and a decent cam and new lifters, and port matching the heads will work wonders and put new life, ad power and responsiveness to the beast. Maybe $500 - $600 USD.
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Pmustang
Oh I will enjoy it. I am actually enjoying fixing it. The crux of this thread was to get some ideas on how I should proceed. I had been having some misgivings about jumping into a stroker and then saddling myself with the problem of selling the removed engine and then having to shell out big bucks to chuck the current dual flow master exhaust system to install a new one. It seems easier to use what I have and make that lemonade a bit cheaper per glass.
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zray
Pmustang said:
"........ Would alloy heads give the same result as those mentioned? .........."
Click to expand...
yes, but they cost 3 times as much.


Pmustang said:
"....... 15 years ago when I had a Paxton put on the 289 in my convertible the speed shop told me it took 50hp to turn it. Maybe they were full of it the car was decidedly weaker on the low end after the install..........."
Click to expand...
sounds like they were covering up for s lack of expertise with the installation. you should have had a power increase from 1,200 rpm and up. At full 6 lbs boost there is net HP gain of around 130 without any other modifications.

Z.
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C
2
Having never gone through the experience you've had with your Mustang, I couldn't add to the expert advice already given. I can however relate to the "Truk Lagoon" comment. A dot on the vast Pacific full of history and adventure. Been there, done that!

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zray
Pmustang said:
"......... 15 years ago when I had a Paxton put on the 289 in my convertible the speed shop told me it took 50 hp to turn it. Maybe they were full of it the car was decidedly weaker on the low end after the install........."
Click to expand...
A pal over at one of the supercharger forums found this graph for me. It's a little like deciphering a weather map, but the gist of it is that at maximum flow the supercharger is requiring about 24 HP, but at that point it's making about 150+, for a net gain of 125+.

At low rpm it's using 4 HP to drive it. It takes under 1/2 lb. of boost to overcome the horsepower loss at the low end. Note this is a graph of the older VS-57 from the 1950's. The SN Paxton series (Shelby used the SN-60 in 1966) is more efficient.



Z.
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Pmustang
Okay. I can't argue with numbers. This was bought at powered by ford in downtown Orlando probably 15 plus years ago. When it arrived I opened the box in the shop to inspect and thought it was damaged as I could not turn the pulled on the unit. The gypsy behind the desk told me it takes 50hp to turn it which surprised me as I thought it would easily turn by hand. Shows what I know. That being said I was never happy with the bottom end of the car after the install. Felt like it needed its nuts revved off to make the power. Cheers. Peter
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K
You say you have bought "dozens" of classic cars on ebay. I may be wrong but it sounds to me like you do a lot of turn around buying and selling, either that or you have one heluva big car collection.
Are perhaps just pissed that you won't be able to make a profit on this one!
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zray
Pmustang said:
"............. When it arrived I opened the box in the shop to inspect and thought it was damaged as I could not turn the pulled on the unit. The gypsy behind the desk told me it takes 50hp to turn it which surprised me as I thought it would easily turn by hand. .........."
Click to expand...
there is normally some resistance to turning the supercharger pulley by hand. But they will turn. So there might have been some damage or improper assembly of the head unit.

at some point give vintage Paxtons another chance. Buy one from Craig of Paradise Wheels and you not only won't be sorry, but you'll have a lot of fun to boot. His contact info can be found here:
Paradise Wheels Contact Information - SuperchargerHelp.com

the site is also a good resource of information for the vintage ball drive Paxtons:

SN Series - SuperchargerHelp.com


Z.
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Pmustang
Kechke. I can see how you say that. But to make it sound so like I am lying is not fair. Firstly I would not have paid 40k for a mustang I was to sell. I would buy a 5-7 k builder coupe which would sell in hours over here. This car is for me. I never bought and sold mustangs as a business nor would I invest thousands in a car I bought to resell, if this was my plan. Dealers who make money dont put any more than they have to in order to sell a car. My reference to dozens of classics was in the guise of a classic car dealer, which I was several years ago in classic minis! I was under the guise of barnhill minis and westpaminis. And if you must know. I was more a dealer in order to enjoy owning many minis and the fun of importing and selling to friends i met along the way. No one would slave like I did for the pittance earned while doing so Cheers. Peter
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K
Pmustang said:
Kechke. I can see how you say that. But to make it sound so like I am lying is not fair. Firstly I would not have paid 40k for a mustang I was to sell. I would buy a 5-7 k builder coupe which would sell in hours over here. This car is for me. I never bought and sold mustangs as a business nor would I invest thousands in a car I bought to resell, if this was my plan. Dealers who make money dont put any more than they have to in order to sell a car. My reference to dozens of classics was in the guise of a classic car dealer, which I was several years ago in classic minis! I was under the guise of barnhill minis and westpaminis. And if you must know. I was more a dealer in order to enjoy owning many minis and the fun of importing and selling to friends i met along the way. No one would slave like I did for the pittance earned while doing so Cheers. Peter
Click to expand...
Sorry if you got the impression that I thought you were lying, that was not my intent.

I have read so many horror stories such as yours about buying sight unseen and slipshod second party inspections. A Friend in my area just went through what you are right now. I am very surprised that in todays cyber world that info about scamming that any one would still buy a car under those circumstances.
I know that if I was dishing out 40 grand for a car, I would have air fare tickets in hand to personaly do the inspection myself.
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Pmustang
That's cool. Guess I was a bit touchy. No worries. I know many of those stories myself so it's even worse! We all get caught up in the moment and this was certainly a blunder on my part. I wish I could bring up the auction as the car guy spun a great yarn and to me at least everything looked as described and the story was good. What can I say. Act in haste and repent in leisure. I am going to get where I want to be but trying to do it smartly rather than my normal way which is throwing money at it willy nilly. Cheers. Peter
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Pmustang
Okay here is the add from ebay more or less from his site. You can click on a photo a certain way and open the photobucket accout to see a ton more picks. Can you say you don't think the car looks as described? Certainly fooled me. Also just to clarify the car came to 40k with shipping. It was a high 30s car to purchase. he is doing something right as he sells all of the cars he advertises.

Cloud9Classics Inventory Sold 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback GT 4-Speed – SOLD
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B
Its to bad you cannot watch the youtube video anymore as it was removed but this was a great story of someone in iceland getting scammed by a dealer. He created quite a nicely produced video of all that was misadvertised. It made the rounds and the dealer finally made good with the guy after seeing their business get way to much bad internet press

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/g...ehicles-buyers-any-classic-inspect-first.html
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Pmustang
I think the problem is that dealers are flipping cars and the less they know about the car the more honest they can sound. When I was talking to the guy he didn't seem Luke a 100 percent clued up guy on thecae. Said his partner knew more. Looking over the car and not inspecting you don't immediately see the horrid doors, the destroyed front crossmember or The bondo in the rear quarters. But to say the car could have been painted 6 months ago you would have tone ray Charles. He took a bit of artistic license to say the least. Again the car is not a hunk but probably a 25k car to have been correctly priced. The dead battery and drivers door that won't stay open were just evidence they don't put a dime into the cars they sell. Easy fixes that would not have cost alot.
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S
Light touch on the engine then enjoy it how it is! Least then if someone drops a garden rake (my Dad) on it, you will be less bothered and they will escape with their lives.

I got mine back in April (I am 23 years old, my first classic.) Did not take someone to inspect it.

Two weeks later the old 289 gave up, So had to fork out on a 1991 302HO. Got that fitted and enjoyed it for the summer. Still lots to do, lots of Sterling to be spent! But it gets through the MOT and the engine should *touch wood* be good for a while!

Gorgeous motor though. Would love to see it at Capel Manor/any other UK show!

Cant help with the Mods though! No clue. Enjoying reading about your progress for when I do my big resto one day!
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Pmustang
Would love to meet up. Glad to meet another UK person here. Cheers. Peter

RU a member of the U K mustang forum?
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K
Some of the things I saw from the fotos that required further scrutiny;

seam at the bottom rocker pane is in very bad condition.

interior rear quarter/wheel house area painted over very badly(perhaps rust)

front left torque box and frame rail badly mauled by improper jacking

Of course he did not show the faults you mentioned.


As stated in the previous post fix what bothers you the most at this time to get it roadworthy and enjoy it till the time comes when you decide to get into it a bit more

From up here in Canada It's a good looking Mustang.
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