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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone,
I've been getting a lot of great info on this forum about 1st and 2nd gen mustangs! I've wanted one ever since I was a kid and in the next couple years it looks like I may be finally financially ready to join the corral.

Never had a relative or friend that worked on cars so my experience is limited to DIY stuff like tire rotations, oil changes, and I once changed a cam sensor on a PT Cruiser. That's it. The good news is that I am mechanically inclined- I help build massive bioreactors and fermenters at work so I can use tools, machines, and diagrams without much trouble. I work with a few gearheads and they assure me that my current skill set would be just fine on a relatively simple car like a vintage Mustang.

In general, I'm here to learn the particulars of the different years (which engines are stock on which years, etc) and especially am trying to evaluate which specific year and model I will want to buy and what kind of level of mods/original parts I want on it.

I'm not going to need a numbers matching car- I'll want one that will be fun to drive and be safer than stock (disc brakes upgrade, etc). I'm not a car collector and likely will be limited to $12,000 which includes purchase price and cost of fixes/upgrades.

Cosmetically, 69/70 are my favorite years, doubt I could afford a fastback in good condition. It looks like its cheapest to let the PO do all the work for you so here's my big question- What kind of mods do YOU guys, the experts, think don't detract from a car's value?

Thanks for the help, I'm glad to be here!
Brian
 

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so here's my big question- What kind of mods do YOU guys, the experts, think don't detract from a car's value?

Thanks for the help, I'm glad to be here!
Brian
Welcome to the family Brian!

As far as mods affecting value, anything that can be unbolted or taken off of the car without damage is acceptable. For example, if someone added a huge ugly aftermarket tachometer to the steering column, then you can take that off if you don't like it and no harm no foul. But if someone cut the hood open and added a non-original type hood scoop that you don't like, then that's not acceptable in my book and hurts value.
 

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Welcome to the forum! my area of expertise is 64-68 so if you get one of those I can help you with pretty much anything, just send me a message.

as for your question I don't understand it because the whole point of mods are to make a car better in some aspect. to drive better, look better, suit the owner better, increase value, ect. removing value by mods isn't really a mod in my opinion, it's a step backwards.

if you're trying to get a mix of of both original and aftermarket then it's pretty easy, if you get a 289,302,351W or C upgrade to an aod or Tremec, it just makes the car fun to drive...

interior is up to your taste, it is after all YOUR car... unless you plan to sell it then do what you want.
 

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Don't worry about any MODS detracting from the cars value, do what YOU want to YOUR car and enjoy it!

I say the above based on what we're Slowly building, a 460 race car for the street, total overkill, with a very narrow resale market, even then, it'll have an ungodly cost to value ratio.

BUT, it what I want, it's being built for me.

Being mechanically inclined, you'll be good with these cars, they're SO very basic.

WELCOME AND JUMP IN!
 

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I say the above based on what we're Slowly building, a 460 race car for the street, total overkill, with a very narrow resale market
Well, I'm in that market...
 

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Great, so there's two of us,.....:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks so much for all the input, I appreciate it! I'd love to have it LOOK like its stock but have never actually driven a vintage mustang unfortunately so I can't really comment on what kind of engine I'd want. I expect that I'd be happy with a V8, original or not, I have no clue- do you guys think that a stock V8 drives similarly to a crate engine?

I'd also like the car to sound great without ticking off the whole neighborhood so I'm not sure if I'd need to upgrade beyond stock exhaust. I'm also a professional musician on the side so having a nice sound system (no subwoofers) would be a huge plus- I'd also like the engine to sound great but not so loud that I can't hear my music when its cranked. I've seen on some other forums that people hate Flowmaster for that reason- one guy said his buddy's flowmasters were so loud they couldn't talk when the car was in gear.

To sum that up, is a performance upgrade significant enough to warrant a non-stock V8 and what kinds of exhaust would boost HP but not be overwhelmingly loud?
 

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The sky is the limit with these cars and your (1) personal tastes, (2) intended use and (3) budget are what really matter. Just start looking at some of the Mustangs available to you and you'll start to form your own opinions. There's no harm in looking in person.

On the exhaust side - I have Flowmaster 40s on my daily-driven '67 and love them, as do so many others who comment on my car as well. They are loud indeed, but I can still hear my radio and also have a conversation in the car. Some here hate them, so it's really just a personal preference.

Good luck!
 

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the engine everyone usually rocks is the 351W or 302 with an aod..

the engine you want is a 5.0 coyote or a EFI 351 with a really good set of heads and performance parts... or a 427 or 460 if you like paying for gas but having the meanest sound possible.

Also buy a set of electric exhaust cutouts.

Any ford small block engine with a set of GOOD cylinder heads and at or over 10:1 compression will run FAR better than the stock

Intake and carbs and headers come in after that, and cams if you so feel like it.

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article087/A-P1.htm

^^
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Also buy a set of electric exhaust cutouts.
Awesome, thanks guys! In fact, I was actually thinking of putting cutouts into my budget! Great minds think alike :) I think that they'd be a great idea to solve my "quiet in the neighborhood, loud on the road" problem. I've seen these things on youtube before and I think that it'd be the perfect option to choose when I'm loud and not.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Holy crap, I listened to that 5.0 coyote and it sounds incredible. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that out of the new mustangs? How much would one of those engines set me back? Probably $5K? :(
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I've been doing some price checking on ebay and craigslist and it looks like the 351w and 302/AOD options are going to be MUCH cheaper (rebuilt around $2K) than a coyote (looks like $4500-$5K for engine alone).

Thanks for the article, it was really cool! Given that I expect my entire budget to be around $10-$13K, I'm guessing that if I ever need to put in a rebuilt trans/motor it'll be a 302/351w. That being said, after reading the article saying how much help good quality heads can be for HP, what kind would you recommend looking for?
 

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Well if you're going with a 302 or 351 it would depend on a lot of factors, is this car going to be your daily driver? every weekend? some weekends? car shows?

If it's going to be your daily driver I would go with TF170s or AFR 165s for a 302, on a 351 I would go AFR 185's.

Weekend warrior 302 afr 185's.

weekend warrior 351 AFR 205's. (almost 200hp) over stock if you combo it with the right intake.

My best advice is just read up on some other builds and decide what you want to go with!

a 5.0 coyote is indeed the newer mustang engine, to install it usually you have to convert to a Mustang II suspension, but I've seen a few people work around it but in the end it would of been easier to just convert.

All in all if your budget is 10 - 12k I would look HARD for a true rust free one for 5 - 7k

a few tips to look out for when you buy it, at least on 64-68
The rust spots are:
where the front bumper brackets attach to the front frame rails.

Torque boxes, typically on the backside. just take a wrench and tap around, you'll be able to tell if they're still thick because they rot from the inside out.

cowl. it will have rust, whether it's bad or not is a good factor to buy from.

lower front corners of the doors usually start to bubble if the car has sat out in the rain because the doors don't drain if water gets trapped in there.

Rear quarter panels will almost always have rust because the tires kick up rocks and such and chip the paint then it just rusts.

be super critical about rust because you have a budget allowing you to buy a rust free roller. we may make it look like fixing rust is easy, it's not, and it's not fun. if I had the choice of buying a car for 1500$ that needed floors, rails, and boxes, vs a 6000$ rust free roller i'd take the 6000$ roller every time.

The biggest pains are the torque boxes, cowl, and frame rails.

If floors need a patch that's not so bad due to peeling the carpet back and it's right there.

rust comes in 3 types.

Surface rust. super easy to fix.

Pitting rust, also in most cases easy to fix.

and "swiss cheese rust". i'm sure you can guess...

I don't know what tools you have access too but at minimum you need a good air compressor and a quality 3/8" and 1/2" impact and a standard socket/ratchet set and wrenches. A drill(best not to use cordless because you'll be charging it every 5 minutes.) a wire wheel set for the drill. and lots of patience

Good luck, if you have any other questions let me know.
 

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Thanks again! Everyone here is so helpful I should just make my signature "Thanks for the help and advice"! Haha. So I checked out the heads you listed and the TF170s are significantly cheaper than the AFRs so it looks like I should try to be targeting mustangs with a 302 in it. Will TF170s or similarly priced heads go with a 351?

I'd love to drive the heck out of this car and won't be doing any drag racing so performance is nice but my primary decision making criteria will be sticking to my budget. I've seen a lot of people say to let the previous owner do all the work for you because buying these engines/trans/heads/exhaust used (instead of putting them on yourself) will make the final price cheaper. Would you agree with that strategy?
 

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Thanks again! Everyone here is so helpful I should just make my signature "Thanks for the help and advice"! Haha. So I checked out the heads you listed and the TF170s are significantly cheaper than the AFRs so it looks like I should try to be targeting mustangs with a 302 in it. Will TF170s or similarly priced heads go with a 351?

I'd love to drive the heck out of this car and won't be doing any drag racing so performance is nice but my primary decision making criteria will be sticking to my budget. I've seen a lot of people say to let the previous owner do all the work for you because buying these engines/trans/heads/exhaust used (instead of putting them on yourself) will make the final price cheaper. Would you agree with that strategy?
IMO I would search for a rust free roller & go from there. You never know how the PO restored the car which can lead to bigger problems down the road, you'd be surprised at some of the things people call "repairs". I'd start off with a rust free roller so you can build it the way you want & when it's done you'll know exactly what you have... that & to me it's more fulfilling when you take it out for the first time after all the work.
I bought my '68 because I thought the body was straight with a plan to put a 351w, 5-speed, & 9". After working on it a bit I found out the driver door was crunched in along with about 3 gallons of bondo on the rear driver side quarter, not to mention everything on the car being completely wore out.
A Coyote swap is expensive as the last time I looked a crate motor was around $6,500 IIRC & while it'll fit with just notching the towers everyone usually perfers to just delete the towers which will add even more $$$ to the swap along with a trans to bolt up to the Coyote... unless you can get a motor & trans cheap you're looking at about $15k for that route.
A 427FE... well you'll be in about the same boat with the Coyote price wise.
429's... well IMO if you want to go with a 429 then you might as well go with a 460.
460's are cheap & plentyfull that will make plenty of power but are really heavy & fuel mileage will most likely be in the single digits.
302/5.0's are in no short supply but unless you find one that's been freshly rebuilt then they usually have either a lot of mileage on them or been abused.
351/5.8's are in about the same boat as the 302/5.0's with the exception that they are slightly more expensive to build.
390FE's can be found cheap but are expensive to build & are a tight fit in between the '67-'70 shock towers which makes working on them in the car a pain.
On a Windsor aftermarket heads are a must as the Windsors never had a good flowing head. On a stock head you can almost cover the exhaust port with your thumb.
I'd go with a 351 as it'll make more torque easier. For a street car you want torque over horse power as torque rules the street.
You should watch some YouTube vids & search build threads on this forum to get some knowledge about what you want & which way you'd like to go.
Just my .02
 

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Thanks again! Everyone here is so helpful I should just make my signature "Thanks for the help and advice"! Haha. So I checked out the heads you listed and the TF170s are significantly cheaper than the AFRs so it looks like I should try to be targeting mustangs with a 302 in it. Will TF170s or similarly priced heads go with a 351?

I'd love to drive the heck out of this car and won't be doing any drag racing so performance is nice but my primary decision making criteria will be sticking to my budget. I've seen a lot of people say to let the previous owner do all the work for you because buying these engines/trans/heads/exhaust used (instead of putting them on yourself) will make the final price cheaper. Would you agree with that strategy?
like multi68stang said, you never know what someone justifies a "repair" as. Also a good way to spot bondo when buying a car is with a small magnet wrapped in cloth. you'll feel the difference when you run it over bondo.

If your plans are to drive the hell outta the car and stick to your overall budget I would get the car you pick, tear it down, and inspect and tally it from there. whether you need to wait and save for parts or for some different combo, ect

TF170's and afr165's have been a grand topic of debate. people swear by both but my heart lies with AFR, just because of the proof way they test all their heads.

go view reviews on each or comparison's.

Also you'll want the tighter 58cc chamber on whatever 165 or 170s you get.
And if you go with a 351, you may as well go with the bigger heads, more air in = more power... getting air out is also important too. I would try and find a good used set of 185's or 205's if you can find them, and just have the machine shop mill your block's deck and check the heads. if you buy used aluminum heads make sure you know what they came out of and why he/she is selling them, I've personally went to many CL postings to find hairline cracks in the heads.

Here is another article about the 165 - 185 - 205 heads.
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article142/A-P4.html

Also all other articles
https://www.airflowresearch.com/articles.php
 
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