Vintage Mustang Forums banner

New Guy Here

3K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  Schoenbrau 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,
I've been getting a lot of great info on this forum about 1st and 2nd gen mustangs! I've wanted one ever since I was a kid and in the next couple years it looks like I may be finally financially ready to join the corral.

Never had a relative or friend that worked on cars so my experience is limited to DIY stuff like tire rotations, oil changes, and I once changed a cam sensor on a PT Cruiser. That's it. The good news is that I am mechanically inclined- I help build massive bioreactors and fermenters at work so I can use tools, machines, and diagrams without much trouble. I work with a few gearheads and they assure me that my current skill set would be just fine on a relatively simple car like a vintage Mustang.

In general, I'm here to learn the particulars of the different years (which engines are stock on which years, etc) and especially am trying to evaluate which specific year and model I will want to buy and what kind of level of mods/original parts I want on it.

I'm not going to need a numbers matching car- I'll want one that will be fun to drive and be safer than stock (disc brakes upgrade, etc). I'm not a car collector and likely will be limited to $12,000 which includes purchase price and cost of fixes/upgrades.

Cosmetically, 69/70 are my favorite years, doubt I could afford a fastback in good condition. It looks like its cheapest to let the PO do all the work for you so here's my big question- What kind of mods do YOU guys, the experts, think don't detract from a car's value?

Thanks for the help, I'm glad to be here!
Brian
 
See less See more
#5 ·
so here's my big question- What kind of mods do YOU guys, the experts, think don't detract from a car's value?

Thanks for the help, I'm glad to be here!
Brian
Welcome to the family Brian!

As far as mods affecting value, anything that can be unbolted or taken off of the car without damage is acceptable. For example, if someone added a huge ugly aftermarket tachometer to the steering column, then you can take that off if you don't like it and no harm no foul. But if someone cut the hood open and added a non-original type hood scoop that you don't like, then that's not acceptable in my book and hurts value.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Welcome to the forum! my area of expertise is 64-68 so if you get one of those I can help you with pretty much anything, just send me a message.

as for your question I don't understand it because the whole point of mods are to make a car better in some aspect. to drive better, look better, suit the owner better, increase value, ect. removing value by mods isn't really a mod in my opinion, it's a step backwards.

if you're trying to get a mix of of both original and aftermarket then it's pretty easy, if you get a 289,302,351W or C upgrade to an aod or Tremec, it just makes the car fun to drive...

interior is up to your taste, it is after all YOUR car... unless you plan to sell it then do what you want.
 
#7 ·
Don't worry about any MODS detracting from the cars value, do what YOU want to YOUR car and enjoy it!

I say the above based on what we're Slowly building, a 460 race car for the street, total overkill, with a very narrow resale market, even then, it'll have an ungodly cost to value ratio.

BUT, it what I want, it's being built for me.

Being mechanically inclined, you'll be good with these cars, they're SO very basic.

WELCOME AND JUMP IN!
 
#8 ·
I say the above based on what we're Slowly building, a 460 race car for the street, total overkill, with a very narrow resale market
Well, I'm in that market...
 
#10 ·
Thanks so much for all the input, I appreciate it! I'd love to have it LOOK like its stock but have never actually driven a vintage mustang unfortunately so I can't really comment on what kind of engine I'd want. I expect that I'd be happy with a V8, original or not, I have no clue- do you guys think that a stock V8 drives similarly to a crate engine?

I'd also like the car to sound great without ticking off the whole neighborhood so I'm not sure if I'd need to upgrade beyond stock exhaust. I'm also a professional musician on the side so having a nice sound system (no subwoofers) would be a huge plus- I'd also like the engine to sound great but not so loud that I can't hear my music when its cranked. I've seen on some other forums that people hate Flowmaster for that reason- one guy said his buddy's flowmasters were so loud they couldn't talk when the car was in gear.

To sum that up, is a performance upgrade significant enough to warrant a non-stock V8 and what kinds of exhaust would boost HP but not be overwhelmingly loud?
 
#11 ·
The sky is the limit with these cars and your (1) personal tastes, (2) intended use and (3) budget are what really matter. Just start looking at some of the Mustangs available to you and you'll start to form your own opinions. There's no harm in looking in person.

On the exhaust side - I have Flowmaster 40s on my daily-driven '67 and love them, as do so many others who comment on my car as well. They are loud indeed, but I can still hear my radio and also have a conversation in the car. Some here hate them, so it's really just a personal preference.

Good luck!
 
#12 · (Edited)
the engine everyone usually rocks is the 351W or 302 with an aod..

the engine you want is a 5.0 coyote or a EFI 351 with a really good set of heads and performance parts... or a 427 or 460 if you like paying for gas but having the meanest sound possible.

Also buy a set of electric exhaust cutouts.

Any ford small block engine with a set of GOOD cylinder heads and at or over 10:1 compression will run FAR better than the stock

Intake and carbs and headers come in after that, and cams if you so feel like it.

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article087/A-P1.htm

^^
 
#13 ·
Also buy a set of electric exhaust cutouts.
Awesome, thanks guys! In fact, I was actually thinking of putting cutouts into my budget! Great minds think alike :) I think that they'd be a great idea to solve my "quiet in the neighborhood, loud on the road" problem. I've seen these things on youtube before and I think that it'd be the perfect option to choose when I'm loud and not.
 
#15 ·
I've been doing some price checking on ebay and craigslist and it looks like the 351w and 302/AOD options are going to be MUCH cheaper (rebuilt around $2K) than a coyote (looks like $4500-$5K for engine alone).

Thanks for the article, it was really cool! Given that I expect my entire budget to be around $10-$13K, I'm guessing that if I ever need to put in a rebuilt trans/motor it'll be a 302/351w. That being said, after reading the article saying how much help good quality heads can be for HP, what kind would you recommend looking for?
 
#17 ·
Well if you're going with a 302 or 351 it would depend on a lot of factors, is this car going to be your daily driver? every weekend? some weekends? car shows?

If it's going to be your daily driver I would go with TF170s or AFR 165s for a 302, on a 351 I would go AFR 185's.

Weekend warrior 302 afr 185's.

weekend warrior 351 AFR 205's. (almost 200hp) over stock if you combo it with the right intake.

My best advice is just read up on some other builds and decide what you want to go with!

a 5.0 coyote is indeed the newer mustang engine, to install it usually you have to convert to a Mustang II suspension, but I've seen a few people work around it but in the end it would of been easier to just convert.

All in all if your budget is 10 - 12k I would look HARD for a true rust free one for 5 - 7k

a few tips to look out for when you buy it, at least on 64-68
The rust spots are:
where the front bumper brackets attach to the front frame rails.

Torque boxes, typically on the backside. just take a wrench and tap around, you'll be able to tell if they're still thick because they rot from the inside out.

cowl. it will have rust, whether it's bad or not is a good factor to buy from.

lower front corners of the doors usually start to bubble if the car has sat out in the rain because the doors don't drain if water gets trapped in there.

Rear quarter panels will almost always have rust because the tires kick up rocks and such and chip the paint then it just rusts.

be super critical about rust because you have a budget allowing you to buy a rust free roller. we may make it look like fixing rust is easy, it's not, and it's not fun. if I had the choice of buying a car for 1500$ that needed floors, rails, and boxes, vs a 6000$ rust free roller i'd take the 6000$ roller every time.

The biggest pains are the torque boxes, cowl, and frame rails.

If floors need a patch that's not so bad due to peeling the carpet back and it's right there.

rust comes in 3 types.

Surface rust. super easy to fix.

Pitting rust, also in most cases easy to fix.

and "swiss cheese rust". i'm sure you can guess...

I don't know what tools you have access too but at minimum you need a good air compressor and a quality 3/8" and 1/2" impact and a standard socket/ratchet set and wrenches. A drill(best not to use cordless because you'll be charging it every 5 minutes.) a wire wheel set for the drill. and lots of patience

Good luck, if you have any other questions let me know.
 
#18 ·
Thanks again! Everyone here is so helpful I should just make my signature "Thanks for the help and advice"! Haha. So I checked out the heads you listed and the TF170s are significantly cheaper than the AFRs so it looks like I should try to be targeting mustangs with a 302 in it. Will TF170s or similarly priced heads go with a 351?

I'd love to drive the heck out of this car and won't be doing any drag racing so performance is nice but my primary decision making criteria will be sticking to my budget. I've seen a lot of people say to let the previous owner do all the work for you because buying these engines/trans/heads/exhaust used (instead of putting them on yourself) will make the final price cheaper. Would you agree with that strategy?
 
#19 ·
IMO I would search for a rust free roller & go from there. You never know how the PO restored the car which can lead to bigger problems down the road, you'd be surprised at some of the things people call "repairs". I'd start off with a rust free roller so you can build it the way you want & when it's done you'll know exactly what you have... that & to me it's more fulfilling when you take it out for the first time after all the work.
I bought my '68 because I thought the body was straight with a plan to put a 351w, 5-speed, & 9". After working on it a bit I found out the driver door was crunched in along with about 3 gallons of bondo on the rear driver side quarter, not to mention everything on the car being completely wore out.
A Coyote swap is expensive as the last time I looked a crate motor was around $6,500 IIRC & while it'll fit with just notching the towers everyone usually perfers to just delete the towers which will add even more $$$ to the swap along with a trans to bolt up to the Coyote... unless you can get a motor & trans cheap you're looking at about $15k for that route.
A 427FE... well you'll be in about the same boat with the Coyote price wise.
429's... well IMO if you want to go with a 429 then you might as well go with a 460.
460's are cheap & plentyfull that will make plenty of power but are really heavy & fuel mileage will most likely be in the single digits.
302/5.0's are in no short supply but unless you find one that's been freshly rebuilt then they usually have either a lot of mileage on them or been abused.
351/5.8's are in about the same boat as the 302/5.0's with the exception that they are slightly more expensive to build.
390FE's can be found cheap but are expensive to build & are a tight fit in between the '67-'70 shock towers which makes working on them in the car a pain.
On a Windsor aftermarket heads are a must as the Windsors never had a good flowing head. On a stock head you can almost cover the exhaust port with your thumb.
I'd go with a 351 as it'll make more torque easier. For a street car you want torque over horse power as torque rules the street.
You should watch some YouTube vids & search build threads on this forum to get some knowledge about what you want & which way you'd like to go.
Just my .02
 
#21 ·
I prefer the heads with screw in studs for the rockers to the more common pedestal mount design Ford used. Comes from past experience working on Chevy engines but it truly is a better system for various reasons. So if you do buy new I'd get them that way out the gate. That's how I ordered my AFRs and imagine trick flows may also have that option.
 
#22 ·
Good advice here, particularly about buying the best, straightest, rust free body you can find/afford. Don't rely on the PO's ability to align panels, weld properly, etc. Nothing more frustrating than having to cut out and replace the last guy's poor quality work.

With your budget, I would advise finding a good roller, with all the interior parts, etc, with either no drivetrain, or a blown one. Then look for a drivetrain. I would suggest finding a fox body with a good motor and trans, in a crappy body. You can get a good drivetrain for ~$2k, along with an engine harness and a bunch of parts you'll need to build a 5.0 with T5/AOD. When you're done, you can part out the fox and make a little of your money back. I wouldn't spend a lot of time figuring out head swaps. Get your car bought, made solid and safe, and running. Then if you need to bump up the performance, you can mod as you go. Otherwise you can be building the most amazing car that you will never drive. I speak from 11 years experience.
 
#23 ·
Cool, a lot of food for thought there. Keep in mind that I have plenty of time- I haven't even started actively shopping so I'm in no rush. If you found one that had a rebuilt engine and some upgrades, would you think that hiring a 3rd party mechanic to inspect the car to make sure it was done right would be a good idea? Like, if he says that all the work the PO says he did was actually done and done properly, is it pretty likely that it's all good then or would you think it'd be smarter to just tear it down and rebuild it myself?

My only hesitation to buying a roller and adding parts to it is that I know guys that have done that and a $10K budget quickly explodes into spending $16K. I suppose that as long as I can accurately diagnose problems with the car before I buy and can accurately estimate pricing for required parts then I'd be good.
 
#24 ·
things like this take time and patience, many people literally have over 1000 hours working on some of these cars from start to finish, it's the best feeling when it's done and knowing you took the time to do it right, rather than rush to get it done and it looks like crap...

As for budget like I've said that depends on what you get from the start... These cars are 50 years old, you will find rust somewhere you weren't expecting unless already restored at some point, but then it's usually 100 pounds of bondo..

I reccomend you use some of the advice for looking for rust and bondo when you buy a car and then tear it all the way down before you buy anything else.

CJ pony parts
NPD
Mustang central
Those guys will have any and everything you need to restore or replace parts.

Mustangs to fear is also a good place for custom items.

There is a YouTube series called autorestomod they do a lot of restore and repair to mustangs and a few other classics, but mostly mustangs. Start from the beginning on their channel.

If you feel like you can't undertake the operation(and I don't feel like you do, I'm just saying this to say it.) then raise your budget to 16 - 18k over the next few years and buy mostly complete. Many people with the money to do so just opt for this.
 
#25 ·
Again I'd start with searching build threads on here, preferably the body style you want the most & believe you'll end up with. Members go into a lot of detail on their build threads & through that you'll be able to learn what to look for when it comes time to purchase along with the correct methods on how the repairs are made. Another benefit from the build threads are you'll be able to learn the mods that people do to these cars from the simple to the extreme.
Finding someone that knows these cars from top to bottom to look it over before purchase isn't a bad idea, see if there is a local Mustang Club that can give you some help & maybe point you to some trust worthy shops. There should be a section on this forum that lists the Mustang Clubs in each state.
 
#26 ·
Thanks very much! It looks like I need to begin evaluating cost/benefits of a finished car (if the work is as good as it should be) versus a roller that I put together myself and KNOW the work was done right.

In a vacuum I'd love to go the roller route because of the fun of doing it myself and being able to have my son (he's too little now but will be older and can help me by the time I buy) work on it with me. When I was in grad school I bought, gutted, and rehabbed my own house and definitely have that sense of satisfaction. I plan on keeping the car for the rest of my life so unlike when I sell my house, I'll be able to enjoy that satisfaction forever, and my son too.

I'm going to do some thorough reviewing of build threads, thanks so much for the tip, everyone here has been so helpful!!!
 
#27 ·
Welcome aboard! Is it weird that your screen name makes me want beer? Anyways, as someone who has been down this road several times as many of us on here have I think you are on the right track with buying a more complete and finished car. It truly is the better value. There are nuts like me that bought theirs specifically because they wanted to build it their way and enjoy the process. And there is nothing that says that you and your son won't do that together at some point. But, as an introduction to the hobby a nice solid driver will still give you plenty to fiddle with as you learn but you will get to make some memories along the way. When the kiddo is old enough maybe it will be tired enough to justify a resto and you can do it together. But with a lot more knowledge under your belt. Just a thought. Very best of luck. And once again welcome.
 
#28 ·
Thanks man! In fact, it's no surprise that my name makes you want a beer, it's the name I give to all the beer I make, ha! I've been an avid homebrewer for almost 9 years and its a play off of my last name (Schoeneck) that means "Good Brew". Roughly, "Schoen" means good/pretty and "Brau" means brew.
 
#29 ·
Welcome to the site. We get spoiled out west as there is an abundance of early Mustangs for sale for decent prices - if you are coupe hunting. maybe you can stumble across a good one owner car that you can slowly fix up and still drive, I know they are still out there. We don't have a big rust problem here but I am sure that could eat up your entire budget if you're not careful. Good luck in the search.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top