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Discussion Starter #1
Hello:
I had a guy go and appraise a car that I am looking at purchasing. He found the following:

"Apparently at one time the left front engine compartment apron has been replaced and the original number stamped into the sheet metal is gone. This is not a big deal, most states have this procedure in place to keep cars
legitimate even after part of the stamped VIN has been damaged. There should be another stamping of the number on the passenger side fender apron, near the hood hinge, hidden by the top edge of the fender. You should be able to
remove the fender and find the original VIN. "

Here is my question... Is this an accurate statement?? If I am going to spend the $ I would prefer a # matching car.... does the absence of the Vin# on the fender apron greatly de-value the car? Should I not even consider the car?

Any comments are greatly appreciated as I am looking to make a decision by this weekend.

What would you do?

Thanks for your help,

Eric
 

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I could be mistaken here , but from what I have heard pre 71 stangs are not # matching anyhow (with the exception or shlebys and boss's) ... so the big deal is getting a "correct" engine (i.e. a 69 351W in a 69 car, ... ).

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first. how much are you spending? second. what are you using the car for? show? daily? just for fun? If it were me and I just wanted a "fun" car to enjoy AND I liked it, why not?
Having said that though.. I think some basic info on the car you want might help. Hardtop, conv, fb,boss etc. these things can make the difference. I am fortunate enough to enjoy a show car and a "grocery getter". In the long run a car without its vin usually means it was damaged enough for that part to be cut away. this is not good. Think about how you will use it. If its just for fun then hey, it's your money. If you are reaching for something more, let someone else buy it.
 

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The appraiser is correct in that the VIN is also on the passenger inner fender. If it is missing from the driver's side, chances are that inner fender has been replaced with a reproduction. I would inspect the car for previous crash damage. But if the repair was done correctly, I wouldn't let it stop me from purchasing the car, unless it's a super rare expensive car.


Coppertone's current condition:
http://www.knology.net/~dorner/images/coppertone2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the comments so far....
The car is a 1965 A-Code Convertible.
I would like to drive the car during nice days in the summer, etc... but would considering showing it in the daily driver class as well (along with my 65 coupe)

Anymore info?

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I must be confused... I always thought that engine compartment VIN matched the VIN on the door tag (even on the 65)
This is how my coupe is?

Is this not the case?? Do #s matching not matter on the 65?

(Keep in mind that I am a relative novice when it comes to the technical details and defer to the experts)

Thanks again.
 

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Check the car carefully first. Take a non partial friend or club member with you and ask them what they think. If you feel o.k. with it and your intentions are for your enjoyment then buy it! Good luck!
 
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I was reading fast but see no mention of the vehicle registration or title #s.
 

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Certainly the VIN should match on the doortag and inner fender. GM products stamped the VIN on the engine, and all kinds of stuff. So when you think of # matching, the best we can do is compare date codes. Ford stamped the date each part was manufactured. And the only value to # matching is a belief that the car hasn't been pieced together. Big deal if you ask me.


Coppertone's current condition:
http://www.knology.net/~dorner/images/coppertone2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The VIN# that is on the door/title, etc = 5F08A791xxx

(Hope I don't offend anyone with the xxx but it is not my car)

This is the stamped # that is missing from the engine apron

Anymore suggestions....
My main concern is that I may want to show some day, do the lack of original apron w/ # make a great deal in that respect?

Thanks again.

Eric
 

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The VIN should appear 4 places, only 2 of them will be apparent with the fenders on the car. He is correct about the hidden number stamped on the top of the apron on the passenger's side. There is also a 2nd hidden # on the apron on the driver's side and, of course, the warranty/data plate.I wouldn't buy the car unless the VIN can be found somewhere. You can loosen the fender bolts and pull it back to expose the hidden numbers. I would negotiate a deal based on the condition that you can find at least one of the stamped numbers (not the data plate number - that can be faked too easily) on the aprons. You should verify that it matches the title, too. Otherwise, you could buy a stolen car.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by mrgem on 03/22/01 02:48 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 

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Make sure you verify at least one fender VIN. I know in California, the door tag means exactly squat to the DMV and police. If you can't verify a VIN, I'd walk away. I'd also check with your local DMV (call as an anonymous inquirer) about their policy on the missing VIN. You could get into some pretty deep legal "red tape" if the VIN can't be easily verified.

And as the others have mentioned already, there are 2 more hidden VINs on the inner fenders.

If you always do what you've always done,
You'll always get what you've always got

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Matching numbers for vintage Fords is not as clear-cut as for GM's, but it is something to look for if the car is to be shown at a high level or if resale value is important. For vintage Fords, sub-assemblies with date codes up to 6-8 weeks earlier than the vehicle build date are considered "numbers-matching". That's as deep as it goes. As another poster said, it really serves as a probability indicator that the car is all orginal but is by no means definitive.

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Add to this the complication you are moving a car across state lines, I would be very careful. Illinois cars use a title for the car's entire life as opposed to some states where it is optional or not needed after a car is of a certain age.

As a condition of purchase, find one of the hidden serial numbers. The door tag means nothing except it may have been replaced at some point.

Good luck!

Gene J

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1584519&a=12058180&p=43615717.jpg
66 Coupe/66 Convert/84 GT Turbo/96 coupe

Gene's cars
 

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Unless the car is an odd one (my interest) or a rare one I would pass.

And if it is I would only after confirming the VIN with one of the hidden ones

After 70 or so of these cars I haven;t had to buy one like that (no visable VIN) yet ;)

Jeff Speegle
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Mustang & Shelby research, documentation, and help.
Where sharing with one .. means sharing with all
 
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