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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The restoration of my 66 FB is progressing to the point where I need to think about the engine build. I've decided to go with a 5.0 roller block with a 331 stroker kit. I'm looking for for a streetable, torquey engine that's fun to drive between 2000 and 4000 rpm--I don't want a race-oriented engine. (However, from an efficiency point of view, I want aluminum heads and intake, headers). This is a local quote I received:

331 Long Block Stroker Engine -$5,625
Included Parts:
Scat 3.250 Stroke Steel Crank
Scat 5.400 Forged I Beam Rods
Keith Black Hyper Dish Pistons (9.7: 1 C/R)
Total Seal Maxx Moly Ring Set
Clevite Bearings (Rod, Main, Cam)
PNR Brass Freeze Plugs
AFR 165CC Alum Heads
SCP Full Aluminum Roller Rockers
CompCams Custom Length 1 pc chromemoly pushrods
Milodon oil pan & pickup
Melling Hi Vol pump, stud & shaft
FelPro gaskets (heads, rear seal, oil pan, timing cover)
CompCams Hyd Roller Cam/Lifters
Cloyes Street Roller Timing Set
PNR OE Style Timing Cover
PNR Steel Harmonic Balancer
TrickFlow Main Bolt Girdle Kit
ARP Head & Main Bolts

Included Labor:
Vat and Magnaflux block
Bore and hone w/torque plates
Deck block w/BHJ fixtures
Clearance block for stroker crandk
Balance rotating assembly
Assemble long block
Prime engine w/oil

Additional Items for Turn Key Engine - $1250
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Edelbrock 600 CFM Performer Carb
Carter Street Hi volume Fuel Pump
MSD Pro Billet Street Distributor
Taylor 8MM Resistor Plug wires
Bullet Hi Torque Starter

What are your thoughts--reasonable, etc. For a street engine I don't think I need a "main bolt girdle kit." Also, I planned to use a stock oil pan, standard volume oil pump. What to leave out, what to add? What else should I be thinking of to make sure I get vlaue for my money? Thanks.
 

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I think the price sounds reasonable. Only changes I would make would be ARP main studs and head studs over bolts. Just a bit of extra insurance. As far as the main girdle, probably overkill like you thought. I'd go with a 650 cfm carb too. It should be a screamer, sweet build!!!
 

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the main girdles do nothing but keep the parts in one location when they break, for an NA motor that isn't going to see any extreme RPMs I wouldn't worry about it. Don't know that a high volume oil pump is needed either, just saps more from the motor but personal preference is the deciding factor.

Forged Steel crank and forged alum pistons? what type of block (they used to have a "sportsman" 302 I believe, but don't recall the part #)

sounds like a sweet build, good luck with it.
 

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Couple points:

The alumn roller rockers - if possible change to steel, as the mass of the steel rockers will be less than the alum, when comparing equal strengths. You want to take mass and weight off the valve train. Also, most roller rockers have a ratio that is greater than the factory rocker (1.65 or 1.73 versus 1.50). This will give you more total valve lift without the associated coil bind, if all of the lift were coming from the cam lobes. Consider using rockers with a ratio greater than the factory spec.

You could also paint the inside raw casting surfaces of the block with a red glycol (?) type paint sold by Eastwoods. This seals the cast iron so that particles don't flake off, as they otherwise do, and travel through the oil to get into your bearings. This is a race engine builders trick. Also, you can have the oil drain holes in the intake valley chamfered for better oil flow. Have the block machined for screw in oil galley plugs, instead of the factory press-in style. Screw in freeze plugs also strengthen the block, compared to press-in. You can also have oil restrictors installed which reduces the oil flow in the top end and keeps more down on the bearings, which both lubricates and cools.

Chamfering the oil passage openings in the crank are also helpful to promote oil flow. To avoid windage, the counterweights on the crank can be knife edged before balancing the rotating assembly. All of these steps are extras that are associated with race-built engines. They help, but for a street performer, may cost too much to be worth it.

When building the heads, try the Comp Cams beehive valve springs. You can get the higher seat pressure without the coil bind and use of a dampner. Have the exhaust ports machined to match the gaskets and header flange openings. Similarly, have the intake ports gasket matched for the intake manifold runner size. If the heads are offered with some type of bowl work, port and polish, consider paying for that.
(for instance, Trick Flow has offerings with stages I through III in terms of the level of porting and polishing). Unshrouding the valves, even backcutting the intake valves, will help.

I don't recognize the brand of the balancer. You want to get an ATI, Fluidamper, Romac, Motorsport or other SFI race rated dampner. Otherwise, the quality just isn't there, for the money you are paying. You need guide plates if you are using roller tip rockers. With guideplates, you need hardened push rods. Suggest Crane, rather than Comp Cams for the Cam, or even Isky. It seems there have been more lobe failures on the comp cams, compared to these other two brands. Personally, the tech support of Crane has been far superior to Comp Cams. The cam should be ground to the 5.0 firing order. With alum heads, I believe you can run higher compression without detonation, compared to a cast iron head. Think of 10:1 compression ratio? One way to achieve this is to use a cometic brand head gasket. This is a multiplayer head gasket that allows you to adjust the compressed thickness. Reducing the compressed thickness from .055-.060 of the Felpro down to .040 should pump the compression ratio up by around .4, on your engine.

With the roller cam, the dist. cannot have a cast iron driven gear. Needs a bronze gear. MSD makes a nice plug and play distributor that does not require an ignition box. It also makes a box driven distributor that has 5 timing curves built into it. Simply turn a knob on the outside of the dist. housing to change curves. I had a Jacobs multiple spark ignition box. When the box was disabled, it was like taking 2 degrees out fo the timing advance, the loss in performance was that noticeable. An MSD 6AL box should improve your combustion and hence power yield.

The stock Ford oil pump driveshaft is a notorious weak spot. Swap for a hardened drive shaft. Also, blueprinting the oil pump is a little extra that pays off in better oiling over the long term.

Why the Malodin oil pan? Is it for added quantity and baffles to hold the oil close to the pump pick-up? Personally, I don't like the gold cadium look, nor the shape. Ford Performance Parts makes large volume pans with baffles. At one time a 9 qt, but now I think it max's out at 8 qt. canton makes a great oil pan that looks stock on the outside. The downside is you have to use their pick-up in order to clear the baffles. There is also the cobra T style pan with a finned bottom for cooling.

With the Edelbrock 600 cfm carb, you don't need a high volume fuel pump. doesn't hurt, but it's money you don't need to spend. Try waiting to see if the engine develops a lean spot that cannot be tuned out of the carb before spending the extra money.

Have you considered underdrive pulleys? an electric water pump? You'll save perhaps 15hp of parisite power loss with swapping to an electric water pump. The underdrive pulleys could give you another 5-10 hp. A K&N air filter could give you another 3-5 hp. Dyno test showed use of a K&N carb stack provided a Ford small block with an additional 15 hp. The stack smooths out the air flow into the carb, thus increasing velocity. Consider a 1 inch phenolic carb spacer for both heat insulating properties (to keep the gas cool in the carb) and also to increase the plenum size of the intake.

Lastly, one of the wear issues on a stroker engine is the angle of the rod creating side load on the piston skirts. The longer the rod, the greater the side load. Think about this when selecting connecting rods. Also, you can get lightweight rods and pistons. The lighter the rotating assembly, the less inertia that has to be overcome for crank rotation. This gives more power. Probably better for bearing life too, but I don't recall what I've read on it.

Finally, your turn key add-ons seem to be overpriced, unless the amount you list includes labor for installation.

In summary, You have a great selection of parts and a well thought out plan. The synergy of the parts looks good and it should perform as you wish. Just make sure the cam grind gives you power down low and a wide flat torque peak. A cam ground for a 5,500 rpm torque peak is not going to make you happy as you tool around town at 3,000 rpm.

good luck.
 

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New here, but thought I'd junp in on this one...

I'm having a 331 built as we speak, and it is quite similar to your build. I opted for a cast/nodular crank as opposed to the forged crank as forged is generally pretty spendy and not necessary unless you intend high RPM's or a vast amount of boost. The nodular units can take a moderate amount of boost and still perform well.

Also, you may want to look into Mahle forged pistons. They have a nice forged unit that is extremely light, and as a previous poster mentioned, the lighter the rotating assembly the better.

Good luck with the build - it should be a beast!
 

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1 question or suggestion for a tried and true 5.0 combo....Are the AFR 165s your getting pedastal mount or stud mount??? if your set on tyeh 165s i wouldk buy the pedastal mount along with a set of crane 1.73 pedastal mount roller rockers sold through summit and ford racing..these are the ones that came originnaly on all 93-95 cobra mustangs...pair it with a motorsport E-303 or F-303 camshaft and i think youll find the parts cheaper,,and of very high quality...and they will make great power...on the other hand i have a set of AFR 165s on my 5.0 and wish i had bought teh 185s...it has the above combo and will run out of breath at about 4800 RPM....i fell i would have another 800-1000 rpm usable with the bigger head...question is do you need it on teh street,,,probably not,,but price is close to the same,,and i always hate to think i spent the same for less....anyway looks like a good combo..and price looks very much in line...
 

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also ,,i know ill open up a can of worms on this one,,but why the edelbrock carb....i personnaly cant stand them...i know some guys sware by them,,but any car we have had in teh shop with one on it has been a pain..the only plus i see is that all gaskets are above the fuel line,,so no leaks,,but good grief who cant out a bowl gasket on a holley...holley easier tuning and more power in my opinion...and if you shop definately cheaper...and last but not least looks better...edelbrock what an ugly carb,,lol....sorry just had to say that..lol.
 

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Where in Texas are you located and who is the engine builder (if you dont mind me asking), I am currently at the point where I need to start looking for an engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Hallsresto.com on the suggestions on the AFRs. About the Edelbrock carb, I was surprised that this was what the engine builder came up with since they apparently cater to racing and high performance. My Mustang had an Edelbrock before tearing down for the restoration and I've got to say it always worked great (I agree it's not the best looking carb). On the other hand, I had nothing but trouble with the one Holley I had.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Fast68back: I'm located south of Dallas and the engine builder is in Dallas. They specialize in stroker motors. If that works for you, let me know and I'll send you the contact information.
 

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If you dont mind, please pass along the builders info, I'm north or you, up by DFW airport, but a local builder sounds a lot better than mail order. Reading the specs and the suggestions posted, I may just ask them to build the same as yours all though for the little if any difference in cost, why not build a 347 rather than the 331?
 

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Jack1966 said:
Fast68back: I'm located south of Dallas and the engine builder is in Dallas. They specialize in stroker motors. If that works for you, let me know and I'll send you the contact information.
I would like the builders info as well. ([email protected])

And please post a follow up when all is installed and running.

Z. Ray
 

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70sportsroof said:
...Lastly, one of the wear issues on a stroker engine is the angle of the rod creating side load on the piston skirts. The longer the rod, the greater the side load...
... Actually, the longer the rod, the LESSER the side-loading. You want the longest rod combo you can get.

I'd also like to talk to your builder.
 

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One or two more and we may have to look into a group buy!
 

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I was browsing through the local craigslist this morning and someone was selling a motor that was built buy these guys up in OKC, other than them using these motors on that stupid TV show, I had never really heard of them. But from the Dallas area it does not seem like all that bad of a drive and their prices and parts lists seem pretty impressive. Anyone used them before?

A few of the Ford options they offer:

347 Stroker
351
392
427
 
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