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Original Stamped Mustang II / Pinto Suspension. Worth grafting ?

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Once in a while I would come across Mustang II or a Pinto at a salvage yard with decent front suspension that is not rotted out. I noticed that the OEM lower control arm setup is not same as the aftermarket tubular type. The OEM lower is more like Falcon type. I was thinking about grabbing one next time I see one. I do have decent machine tools including MIG welder and a small lathe. Most of the Mustang II swap that I see on the web are the aftermarket type.

For about $200, I was thinking about giving it a shot.

How does the original Mustang II compare to the after market type in terms of suspension geometry?

Had anyone grafted original Musatng II / Pinto front suspension in a Mustang? What is the difficulty? Any major issues ?

Thanks

Waid

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Been discussed considerably on the forum. The stock stuff really sucks,
so it gets my vote for don't bother.
The basic rule is- if you're not swapping to a larger engine and don't
need extra room, DON'T.

"How does the original Mustang II compare to the after market type in terms of suspension geometry?" It's worse. And rubber bushings with lots of rubber
content.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My car is actually 64 Falcon 2 door sedan. Its California car and rust free including the bottom and the front suspension / sub-frame etc... Not to crazy about cutting it up if no real benefit is there other than Rack and Pinion steering. I have seen a pictures of after market MII suspension coming apart. Not sure how safe the car would be if I try to weld it myself. Dont need the extra room since the engine that is going in is a rebuilt 1996 Explorer 5.0 with TFS1 Cam.

Speaking of steering, I am in the process of replacing the 64's long shaft steering box with a hard to find late 66 Mustang's 16:1 power steering box with a rag joint and a 69 Lincoln Collapsible tilt steering column for safety. My setup will not be power.

Waid
 

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I'm with GT289! Sell it to a street rodder and go with either aftermarket double a-arm or improved factor stock.

How many MII cars are/or were ever on track? Ford went to this design for many reasons...max performance was not the motivation.
 

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Great pics. I always thought the MII was a double A-arm, but I guess not, as it still has a single pivot LCA and strut rod.

So why do the aftermarket kits that have double A-arms advertise them as "MII Suspensions"?
 

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The aftermarket Mustang II type suspensions are quite a bit different from the originals. I doubt the width of the crossmember is anywhere near that of the Mustang or the Falcon. Don't use it.
 

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Hey, glad to see another TFFNer here! If you are going low budget, it might be worth it, but in the end I think you are much better off putting the new stuff in. It seems what started out as people using the MII has evolved into a completely different animal. From my research on the subject, the actual geometry of the new stuff isn't even close to the old, but the old rodders made it work, so it can be done...and they spawned an entire industry!
 

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The only reason I was thinking about it was because I was told I can have it for $80!

Waid
By the time you clean it up, put on new rotors, 5-lug hubs, bearings, rebuild the brake calipers, new pads, new shocks, bushings (which are surely worn to dust by now), maybe the steering rack, spindles to give the correct ride height, and probably springs that will hold the weight of a V8, you'll have a lot more than $80 in it. You will probably be approaching the cost of a new R&C or Heidts front end, and still end up with stamped steel a-arms and crossmember, and the wrong geometry. Definitely a pass.
 

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Not trying to hijack the thread but what is everyones take on putting a new mustang ll type front suspension vs. Just upgrading everythi g seperately. With the r&c kit from what I have seen you get suxpension, disc brakes, and rack and pinion steering for less $ than upgrading seperately. Im not after more room under altbough it would be nice. Has therebeen any issues on how these cars hold up since everything is supported from the framerails?
 

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Not trying to hijack the thread but what is everyones take on putting a new mustang ll type front suspension vs. Just upgrading everythi g seperately. With the r&c kit from what I have seen you get suxpension, disc brakes, and rack and pinion steering for less $ than upgrading seperately. Im not after more room under altbough it would be nice. Has therebeen any issues on how these cars hold up since everything is supported from the framerails?
I ran the Heidts in my 65 with a 4.6L. I didn't have any issues at all. I did reinforce the frame rails by connecting the boxing plates Heidts provides to front convertible torque boxes with 3/16" steel plate, and ran 1/8" steel plate along the outside of the floor supports to TinMan subframe connectors. So it was, in effect, 3/16" steel from the front crossmember to the rear torque boxes. My car had 550 HP, 5-speed, 3.73 gears, and drag radials. If there was ever a car to test the structural integrity, that was it. It also handled very well - about as well in turns as my wife's stock 06 Mustang GT. I ran it 4 years and 19K miles (before selling the car) and had absolutely no detectable movement on anything (door gaps didn't change, windshield didn't pop out, and the car didn't fold in half [all of which have been predicted by various skeptics]). The original suspension needs the shock towers to transfer the weight of the engine (and to lesser extent the front half of the car, but the engine is the main weight) to the springs and wheels. That weight on the shock towers causes them to move as the car turns. With the M2 the engine weight sits on the crossmember, which transfers it directly to the springs and wheels, thus there is no engine weight on the aprons or the frame rails (the weight of the front half of the car, other than the engine, is carried by the frame rails, and the 'still there' aprons [they don't disappear, they just don't carry the engine weight anymore]), thus no flex and no need for Monte Carlo bars or other braces on top.

Having said all that, if I didn't need the extra room for a larger engine I'd just upgrade the stock suspension. However, if you can install the M2 yourself, it is a pretty cost-effective solution if you want disc brakes and rack/pinion steering - it usually works out to be cheaper than a good stock suspension upgrade with those features. The stock suspension can be made to perform better than the M2, but for a street-driven car, the M2 is not a bad solution. But with all that extra room under the hood, a SBF looks pretty lonely in there.
 

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Thanks for the "user" review of your M2 equipped ride. I too have heard they ride and handle as a newer style Mustang GT. Definitely no slouch with a 550HP 4.6 and slicks, and indeed a great test car. There's rumours out there of "pictures of failed cars with these setups" but mysteriously none of these pics ever seem to land on the internet? :)
 

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Ozarks 06. I have already purchased the TinMan subframe connectors and convertable front torque boxes so I guess the frame should be stiff enough gor a sbf. Just gotta decide weather I want to cut up the front end.
 

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Once in a while I would come across Mustang II or a Pinto at a salvage yard with decent front suspension that is not rotted out. I noticed that the OEM lower control arm setup is not same as the aftermarket tubular type. The OEM lower is more like Falcon type. I was thinking about grabbing one next time I see one. I do have decent machine tools including MIG welder and a small lathe. Most of the Mustang II swap that I see on the web are the aftermarket type.

For about $200, I was thinking about giving it a shot.

How does the original Mustang II compare to the after market type in terms of suspension geometry?

Had anyone grafted original Musatng II / Pinto front suspension in a Mustang? What is the difficulty? Any major issues ?

Thanks

Waid
Hello Wade knowing this is an old post hoping you read this and reply I purchased a 65 Mustang someone had already fabed in what appears to be a factory 72-78 mustang 2 front suspension was wondering if you ever actually went ahead with it on your car and what obstacles did you encounter?
 

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Here is a 13 page discussion of M2 failures, including photos. This should be enough to quit digging up this old horse and let it rest in peace.
 

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I have an old friend who started to graft in an original MII front end into his 66 coupe. Sadly he starts projects and never finishes and this one was a nice GT deluxe coupe that was a nice driver. I think he still has it and its been sitting for 20 years now.

I use to own a 77 cobra II and I thought that car drove and handled better than my old 66 and the 66 had all new parts, stock versus stock but I was a kid when I owned the 77 and it was years later when I built the 66. It very could just had been because of the rack and pinion steering that made me think it drove better.

My current project has the R&C MII coil kit installed in it. For me it was a no brainer. My towers had been destroyed because they stuff a Boss 302(already sold the B302 engine and trans). I found the R&C kit for sale on here and I could not pass the deal up. The cost of replacing my old towers and all the suspension plus upgrades to the suspension far exceeded what I paid for the R&C coil over kit. Small plug to R&C here. i did not buy the kit from them and I told them that. They knew who I bought it from and they still have been more than helpful and I mean way and above what I ever expected!!!! My car will have a 500HP 418 with a G force built T5 and looking at maybe a 3.70 rear gear for the street. Front torque boxes installed, frame connectors installed and plan on installing the MTF front chassis stiffening braces for the MII setup. Still up in the air about roll bar/cage and inner vert rockers.

I will also be selling the stock new MII rotors, calipers and related brake parts as I will be installing the 03/04 cobra brakes, front and rear with the hydroboost in my project.

If I was to build a track car then maybe I would stay with the stock stuff but that is heavily influenced by what I've read on here and not from experience. I will be reading the link on the MII failures.
 
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