Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
G'day

I've got to replace my coil and was thinking I should upgrade from the pertronix ignitor I to the ignitor III and Flame thrower III coil. The car is in good shape and had its last tune up about 2 months ago. Its always been a little slugish at startup but nothing serious.

Now my questions is I'm by no means a mechanic so I leave that to the pro's but I do like to do as much as possible on my own. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it will need a tuneup if I do the swap to the ignitor III given its currently in good tune?

Just don't wont to do the swap and have problems getting it to the mechanic to deal with the timeing etc as its a fair drive.

Cheers

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
I would leave the Ignitor alone. There's nothing wrong with those. I have run one in my vintage race car for the past 15 years. If you have tuning or starting issues, address those with a good tuneup. If you describe the problems in detail I am sure you can get some input here to guide your attentions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I wouldn't say its a problem I'm just really fussy. Opose to some cars which you only need to look at the key and it springs into life. Mine needs about 1/4 gas peddle and about 2 seconds on the key. The ignitor III is just an idea seeing I need to replace my coil, I figure might as will upgrade for the extra $120.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,096 Posts
If you want to upgrade, I would go to the II unless you have need of a rev limiter. That's the only real difference between the II and the III, as both feature the adaptive dwell. I think the coils are over-hyped - either you have good spark or you don't. The air/fuel mixture burns at the same rate whether you light it off with a 30,000 volt spark or a million volt spark.

All that being said, 1-18-68 has a good point.

I run a II with an OEM-style coil and resister wire on my '65, and couldn't be happier with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
If you want to upgrade, I would go to the II unless you have need of a rev limiter. That's the only real difference between the II and the III, as both feature the adaptive dwell. I think the coils are over-hyped - either you have good spark or you don't. The air/fuel mixture burns at the same rate whether you light it off with a 30,000 volt spark or a million volt spark.

All that being said, 1-18-68 has a good point.

I run a II with an OEM-style coil and resister wire on my '65, and couldn't be happier with it.
I agree with Joe on the coil. You can leave what you have. I did upgrade from an Ignitor II to an III unit only because I was having problems with my II, and the cost difference was small. I left the II coil in and did not upgrade that. I am not sure how long my II was having problems for, but it got to the point where I had to mess around with my timing often. Put the III last spring in and the 351C has been running much better that I can remember in a long time.

Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
If you want to upgrade, I would go to the II unless you have need of a rev limiter. That's the only real difference between the II and the III, as both feature the adaptive dwell..
IMO EVERYBODY needs a rev limiter. Otherwise just ONE mistake and a very expensive KABOOM. It has already saved me once.

The III provides its own base plate and no magnetic ring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
Here's a suggestion and I make this with no awareness of your engine condition, but it may help starting.
Tap the accelerator pedal twice before turning the engine over and I'll bet it starts right up. What this does is to have a charge of fuel from the accelerator pump(s) go into the intake manifold which effectively primes the engine.

There are all sorts of other things which may be overkill here. Check the timing to see if the distributor is responding properly. There are still folks out there with the old style Sun machine that can test and adjust distributors. I can give you a contact if you want to go that route. Certainly another thing to check is spark plug condition and gap. Another thing is on some dark evening, start the car and open the hood with the engine running. Look for sparks/arcing from your ignition wires, you may be amazed. If you haven't replaced your fuel filter lately I would do so and realize many carbs have an internal filter in the inlet line depending on the carb you're running.
Typically a bad coil reveals itself in one of three ways; its just flat dead and won't allow starting; it breaks down after running a bit and heating up; or as I have experienced in the race car, the coil allows the car to start and run but breaks down at a specific rpm (frustrating to diagnose).
The above are offered with the best of intentions and may be things you are willing to do/check or you may have a friend who could assist. I always suggest folks get some hands on experience and don't be afraid of rolling up the sleeves.
Best regards
Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,237 Posts
I wouldn't say its a problem I'm just really fussy. Opose to some cars which you only need to look at the key and it springs into life. Mine needs about 1/4 gas peddle and about 2 seconds on the key. The ignitor III is just an idea seeing I need to replace my coil, I figure might as will upgrade for the extra $120.

like 1-18-68 mentioned it also sounds to me is that your starting it incorrectly.

Cold. Pump pedal twice. leave foot out of it and turn the key. if your choke is right she will fire right up. if that dont work and your plugs are good have your choke readjusted.

Hot; Just turn the key, once started tap the pedal to release any choke that was reset

other than that the only other reason it wont start if its cold is if its been sitting for a while and the bowls evaporated. so then yeah youll have to
bump it over a few times

i put my IG #1 in back in 95 and its still works fine. if thats giving you issues than you may have to bypass the resistance wire to give it full 12-14 volts

The FT coil is a good choice over the stock ones. get some decent wires as well. Pertronics has a nice retro set that Ive been using. 7mm all black and puts out nice power
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
G'day

Just don't wont to do the swap and have problems getting it to the mechanic to deal with the timeing etc as its a fair drive.

Cheers

Ben
Are you taking it to the mechanic just to get it timed?

For a stock engine the #1 is fine, but the #3 does offer rev limiter (cheap insurance), adaptive dwell and it is suppose to offer multi-spark as well. I went from stock points and coil to #3 and it was night and day, but my mine is not stock.

Putting the #3 in is straight forward, but you will have to bypass the resistance wire and re-time it. No need to take it to a mechanic. I think my wife could even do it! A timing light is going to be cheaper than the mechanics labor if you don't have one.

Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks everyone for the replies.

The coil just died the other day driving down the freeway about 10min from home.

Forgot to mention I pump the peddle a few times before starting but she always likes that 1/4 peddle when the key is turned.

Doesn't get that cold around here, she basically never wonts the choke out. Always idles fine straight after startup, sometimes a little funny at about 1500rpm when cold but happy over or under that point.

Original VIN stamped K code engine so the REV limiter is very cheap insurance.

I'm thinking its time for me to learn how to do the timimg and put a ignitor III in. I've got to get my head around hiding a relay so I have 12volts at the coil and still have my Rally Pac working on the lower voltage to protect it.

So getting a little off track if I trace the positive wire off the coil back through the fire wall and hide a relay under the dash. Now I know its best to come straight off the battery for the 12volts into the relay but I would like to just hide it all and find a source under the dash and then just trigger the relay with the original wire, so the wire heading into the engine bay is full 12volts. Does that mean every thing is good to go or will the Rally pack be effected buy the negative wire on the coil.

Cheers

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
i am getting a pertronix 1 at some point. should i get a new stock coil or the pertronix one. also what is an ideal place to time it at right now i think it is at about 10 at idle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
relay

I bought a 7-fuse, fuse box with relays to power mine with full 12 volts.

But... my source for the relay was not powered during cranking. DUH!

I ending up bypassing my resistance wire but I wasn't dealing with a rally pac as you are.

Just keep in mind that to power your relay it needs to have power during the start position on the ignition not just at run! I don't know what i was thinking. :drunkies:

Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
i am getting a pertronix 1 at some point. should i get a new stock coil or the pertronix one. also what is an ideal place to time it at right now i think it is at about 10 at idle.

The stock coil will work fine with the ignitor 1, so if you have your old one handy that's all you need. I ran my car like this for ~3 years.

The flamethrower coil does put out more spark energy so if you need to buy something and don't care about originality, then go with the flamethrower. I think the price difference is small--well worth it IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
I just bought an Ignitor (I) and a Flamethrower coil. Found the best price at StreetSide Auto.com. It was just shy of $100 for both with shipping. Had them in two days.
Just an fyi.
Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,096 Posts
IMO EVERYBODY needs a rev limiter. Otherwise just ONE mistake and a very expensive KABOOM. It has already saved me once.quote]

I have a rev limiter, the floating valves of my stock 302 heads. Don't see any reason to add an electronic one just to set it at 5200.

I agree if your engine is built up to the point where it really can damage itself through overspeeding, but for just about all stock motors, it's not really a danger. The cam and heads just won't allow it.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top