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Discussion Starter #1
More help needed please. Got the Deltron paint color quote from ppg dealer for black jade. I am fine with the cost of the base.

so i called ppg to see if i could spray the deltron base over the shopline black epoxy(which i was going to use as a sealer). ppg said the standard 'we don't test across lines and can't guarantee it'll work'. but the primer and surfacer in the deltron line is several hundred dollars more than the shopline primer and surfacer. so i was going to use the shopline primer and surfacer to save some bucks.

has anyone ever sprayed deltron over a non-deltron primer/sealer? should i risk it?

thanks, David
 

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They will generally only guarantee a product if all the approved stuff is used, from foundation to clear. Problems might not appear for 6 mos or even years. Search autobody101.com , I bet someone has tried everything at some time or another but there are so many variables of problems even using specified supplies its hardly worth experimenting.

If a pro is going to spray it they can generally get the supplies for ~20-30% less than a walk in cash customer. You have to add all the layers together to get what your cost for coverage will be. Also take note of the "add ins" and mix ratios to see the true cost for a given amount of spray-able product.

If If that is your choice then find your Bible here- The Technical Data Sheet will answer all.
 

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I’ve done it a few times. I used Tamco products under the Deltron. Tammy’s family were PPG jobbers before they started making coatings. It’s basically clone PPG or BASF. I topped it with Tamco clear. Check out autobody101.com for great car refinishing info. Good number of pros and experienced DIYers. Several undercoat and clear Deltron with other products. Go with a known combination and it will work well.
 

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Ive been in the autobody business or doing autobody work to some degree for 35 years. More often than not I do not use a manufacturers entire paint system and have never had an issue. Today I only use primers and clear coats from southern polyurethanes and I mostly use PPG deltron or Axalta base coats.
So to answer your question, you'll have absolutely no problem mixing Shopline, Omni or Deltron products at any stage, meaning primers, bases and clears will be fine with no adverse reaction. Id urge you to check out SPI or Tamco for primers and clears, Ive never used Tamco but have heard good things and I can 100% attest the SPI primers and clear coats are a better product than PPG and more affordable.

www.southernpolyurethanes.com
 

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My opinion is that you should never mix modern activators or reducers among brands or lines.. but to put properly mixed Deltron over properly mixed and cured Shopline, no issue... if you took a car to a body shop, they would put their paint over whatever is on your car... I think this topic goes back to the old days when the paint was more universal... and you could mix Centari Enamel with PPG Hardener and Sherwin reducer..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ive been in the autobody business or doing autobody work to some degree for 35 years. More often than not I do not use a manufacturers entire paint system and have never had an issue. Today I only use primers and clear coats from southern polyurethanes and I mostly use PPG deltron or Axalta base coats.
So to answer your question, you'll have absolutely no problem mixing Shopline, Omni or Deltron products at any stage, meaning primers, bases and clears will be fine with no adverse reaction. Id urge you to check out SPI or Tamco for primers and clears, Ive never used Tamco but have heard good things and I can 100% attest the SPI primers and clear coats are a better product than PPG and more affordable.

www.southernpolyurethanes.com
Lightning,
what SPI clear have you used over the Deltron base? I looked at their list and have no idea which clear would be the most user friendly and/or the most durable?
Thanks
 

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I'm also a paint guy...if you're using urethanes, you can mix and match your line paint lines. Don't over think this. But don't cheap out on the primer system, that's the worst thing you can do because that's the entire foundation of your paint job.

I also highly recommend Southern Polyurethanes. They are a true best in class product. Any of their clears will go over any urethane base coat.

For your car, I would recommend these:

  1. SPI Epoxy direct to metal
  2. SPI 2k primer
  3. Seal with epoxy
  4. Your basecoat
  5. SPI Universal clear
  6. I also use SPI slow urethane reducer, and slow activator. I add a capful of the clearcoat activator to the basecoat, which increases adhesion of the clear to the basecoat. Also, if the basecoat is activated, you don't get solvent lifting issues (or they're greatly minimized) if you accidentally sand through the clear during color sanding and need to touch it up.
Just don't use the Shopline because it's kind of cheap crap.

You have ZERO risk. Many high end restoration shops, and some of the best in the business, use SPI products with whatever basecoat they like. I've used them for 10 years with very nice basecoats and some of the cheapest basecoats you can get.

Best part about SPI is its affordable and ships to you free. Also get their wax and grease remove if you're doing this yourself. Barry will recommend getting both the solvent-based and the waterborne WGR. They each have their purpose. I used to use solely solvent base, but switched to waterborne (alcohol based) because it can remove 3x more contaminants in a single pass. It just has a longer flash period than the solvent based, and you can't spray it over an uncleared basecoat like you can the solvent base. My point here though is I get by just fine with a single WGR, not both. But it's the alcohol-based waterborne WGR I use now.
 

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I was just at Barry’s (SPI) site and it doesn’t look like he sells direct anymore. That’s changed since I was there last a year or so ago. Used to be you call him (phone orders only) and he shipped. Now he wants you to call him so he can give you the number of the closest jobber to you. Good material and a great value price wise for sure. You just have to go through a few more steps to get it. My local PPG jobber has gone from family owned great local store to chain owned and bad service. I get my Deltron from Bill Miller (wbmesq) on ebay. The Tamco I get direct or from autobody101. It’s drop shipped from Tamco at the same price.

 

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The jobber is a better deal for the end user anyway because they still have to sell it to you at list price, still have free shipping, only they're closer to you so it either doesn't need to be shipped at all, or you'll receive it the next day as opposed to potentially waiting several days or more, depending how far you are from Georgia.

If the jobber carries SPI, then they're probably informed about the finer details of quality materials and likely have better service. So it makes them a better resource for you too. My jobber is still 2 hrs away from me, but he's active on the SPI User Forums, is a very good painter and carries a lot of quality supplies. So I just get everything through Chad, including my paint. I know if it's something he's carrying, including basecoat, it's going to be good.
 

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I do agree with dm289 about mixing reducers and activators but to be honest Ive done it in a pinch when i didnt have what I needed and had no side effects. SPI will still sell direct, my local SPI jobber is a work out of his car delivery kind of guy and he's usually a week out if i call him for product. A call to SPI gets it to my door in a couple of days. SPI Universal clear is my go to for clear coats. When it comes to cut and buff I've never used a better clear coat. I personally like to use a splash of retarder in my clear, it flows out like glass.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Has anyone used the SPI SS black as an engine bay topcoat or topcoat under the car just as a final coat for protection? If so , how was the sheen?
 

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Has anyone used the SPI SS black as an engine bay topcoat or topcoat under the car just as a final coat for protection? If so , how was the sheen?
I don't want to sound like a fanboy here, but it is hard to go wrong with the SPI basecoats. They are very good. Barry set out to make the blackest black he could make and uses a very fine pigment grind to achieve this. So the black is BLACK. It's also going to be quite shiny. Solid content is also high so they have great coverage. The white stripes on my car are SPI white and it was like elmer's glue; covered my dark blue in just two coats. But I think the SS black would be too much for engine bay. A good engine bay (and frame/undercarriage) finish is the black epoxy. Has more of a satin gloss finish, and is very durable. They've started adding UV stabilizers to it since so many people are using it for exterior purposes now.

They also make a correct Ford Red oxide epoxy for undercarriage.
 

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Some good tips Josh on SPI products. I’m pretty much ready for paint now. I’m figuring on going with Axalta and SPI Universal clear.


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The Universal clear is such a great clear. High solids, stays 'soft' so has good buffing. Because it is a softer clear it will also be easier to scratch, but at the same time this does make it more chip resistant. You can spray on the worst coats of clear but with endless color sanding and buffing it will still look like a $20k paint job. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
SPI sounds like some good stuff. I got a chance to read up on their site also. I did notice for the epoxy tech sheet says must maintain 65 degrees for 24 hours. My shop is large and there is no way i can heat it to 65 at night. at least not until spring. its possible in south louisiana to have some mild temps through winter, but even 65 is rare at night. only had one night this month at 65. i may just build a tent to get by till spring.
 

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SPI sounds like some good stuff. I got a chance to read up on their site also. I did notice for the epoxy tech sheet says must maintain 65 degrees for 24 hours. My shop is large and there is no way i can heat it to 65 at night. at least not until spring. its possible in south louisiana to have some mild temps through winter, but even 65 is rare at night. only had one night this month at 65. i may just build a tent to get by till spring.
The cure temp for this epoxy is critical and irreversibly stops the curing if it gets too cold. If you were to invest in infrared lamps you can accelerate the epoxy cure to a matter of minutes, but that's not really worth it if you're just painting one car. The most critical curing occurs within the first 24 hrs, while a slow cure continues for the next week.

You're quickly figuring out my next point for you...winter isn't the time to paint a car for a DIYer. You need to wait until spring. I'm in northern climates and while I do a number of projects every year, my window for spraying is pretty much May-September.
 

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Yeah, I had already planned to spray base and clear in the spring, but wanted to get epoxy down so i can at least do some body work/ suspension work while i wait. I called SPI, very very great service over there, they said the tent idea heat over night should be fine to cure the epoxy. on some nights it will be easier than others its often high 50s or so which , but just to make sure i'll warm it up to mid 70s under the tent over night so the cure doesn't go dormant.
 

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I used PPG Deltron base coat for my car because it was available using a paint code for Calypso Coral. I wanted to match the factory Calypso Coral as close as possible and the PPG rep told me the Shopline version didn't have any of the toners used in the Deltron version. So, I went with the Deltron and I'm very happy with the color. (Other "Calypso Coral" Mustangs I've seen appear either Competition Orange or Red.)

For everything else, I used SPI. Epoxy over the bare metal then high build primer then reduced epoxy as a sealer. (FYI, I had trouble with the reduced epoxy running. For a home painter, I would suggest another coat of regularly mixed epoxy rather than reduced.) Then I shot three coats of the base coat followed by three coats of Universal Clear. Turned out great!
 

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FYI, I tried using SPI black epoxy for my engine compartment. I used a fast reducer, which was supposed to reduce the sheen, but it still turned out too glossy. I ended up top coating with Duplicolor "Low Gloss Black" from rattle cans and it matched the factory paint exactly. (The factory engine compartment in my 1970 Dearborn Mach 1 had a slight sheen to it.)
 

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SPI sounds like some good stuff. I got a chance to read up on their site also. I did notice for the epoxy tech sheet says must maintain 65 degrees for 24 hours. My shop is large and there is no way i can heat it to 65 at night. at least not until spring. its possible in south louisiana to have some mild temps through winter, but even 65 is rare at night. only had one night this month at 65. i may just build a tent to get by till spring.
Its not just SPI. You will have curing issues with any brand of activated products in cold temps.
 
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