Pulsing lights at idle - how old is this regulator??

2104 Views 56 Replies 10 Participants Last post by matnetik, 6 mo ago

matnetik

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago

Here’s what I know - lights pulse at idle - will get some video this weekend.

I believe it’s just the headlights, not sure if it’s inside as well
3 wire alternator, new cables (unsure how old it is but keeps everything charged and battery reads 13.5v atm)
New solenoid and new battery
New instrument panel regulator
New ground strap from alternator to block, from block to firewall and to radiator
All new bulbs and light housing / cleaned connectors
Just ordered a new headlight switch because mine has been a bit finicky.

I am thinking it’s this 40+ year old voltage regulator or is this a replacement? Easiest way to test? Or just replace? Any recommendations for a solid state unit? Doesn’t need to look factory or anything but would love plug and play. As always, thanks!

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Woodchuck

· #21 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
I did start the engine seconds before taking this video so it was nowhere near warm but yeah pretty wild changes there. Going to run to UPS and will measure again once I return to see if there is any changes when warm.

I am all good with wiring, that's my speciality, you wouldn't recommend the Powermaster units? I've read good things about them, just curious. The VR is this one from NPD - VOLTAGE REGULATOR, ALTERNATOR - #10316-2A - National Parts Depot

Never had an experience with Powermaster.... I just like to utilize OE-replacement type stuff 'cause I don't know if Powermaster just buys the same stuff and puts their label on it. lol. Same for voltage regulator.... I'm sure AMK doesn't make the "guts"... I just buy an ordinary Standard Motor Products VR166 and swap covers if I want to "fool people".

LeeFred

· #22 · 6 mo ago

I recently did the swap from the stock 1G alternator to the 3G alternator. It was pretty simple. I think the hardest thing to do was reclock the alternator case, and that is not that difficult. If you decide to go with one of the Ford 3G alternators, you don't have to worry about the stock voltage regulator anymore because the 3G's are regulated internally. Here's the write-up I did on my installation:

www.vintage-mustang.com

3G Alternator Install in My 65

I decided to install a 3G alternator in my 65. Of the last two 1G alternators I installed, one had the shaft bearings go out after a couple of years and the 2nd one had the Stator post come loose and corrode so it wasn't powering my electric choke at all. I figured it was time to give it a go...

www.vintage-mustang.com

www.vintage-mustang.com

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matnetik

Discussion Starter · #23 · 6 mo ago

LeeFred said:
I recently did the swap from the stock 1G alternator to the 3G alternator. It was pretty simple. I think the hardest thing to do was reclock the alternator case, and that is not that difficult. If you decide to go with one of the Ford 3G alternators, you don't have to worry about the stock voltage regulator anymore because the 3G's are regulated internally. Here's the write-up I did on my installation:

3G Alternator Install in My 65

I decided to install a 3G alternator in my 65. Of the last two 1G alternators I installed, one had the shaft bearings go out after a couple of years and the 2nd one had the Stator post come loose and corrode so it wasn't powering my electric choke at all. I figured it was time to give it a go...

www.vintage-mustang.com

I recently replaced the wiring on my alternator and it has three wires going to it - wouldn't a 3G alternator just be plug and play at this point? I am slightly confused on the difference between 1G and 3G, always though it had to do with the wiring

Woodchuck

· #24 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
I recently replaced the wiring on my alternator and it has three wires going to it - wouldn't a 3G alternator just be plug and play at this point? I am slightly confused on the difference between 1G and 3G, always though it had to do with the wiring

The 3G (Third Generation) Ford alternator is a bit different than the 1G (First Generation). The 3G has an internal cooling fan, versus the external one on the 1G and an "on-board" internal voltage regulator. When replacing the 1G with a 3G, the external voltage regulator can be removed as well as the wires between the regulator A+ (battery) and F (Field) and, if equipped with an alternator warning lamp, the S (Stator) and the alternator. The GRN/RED wire that went to the regulator I (Ignition) for vehicles with warning lamps or the S (Stator) for vehicles with ammeters is extended over to the new 3G alternator's "I" connection. Use the existing alternator output wire from the alternator BAT to the starter solenoid. This will retain your warning lamp or ammeter function. The one "hitch" is in the "excite" wire or the above-mentioned GRN/RED wire that you extended... If you have an AMMETER and the new 3G alternator fails to "go into charge mode" you'll need to place a load in the circuit, the easiest way is to add something like this in series... https://www.amazon.com/EZGO-620430-...ocphy=1027479&hvtargid=pla-312472059028&psc=1

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LeeFred

· #25 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
I recently replaced the wiring on my alternator and it has three wires going to it - wouldn't a 3G alternator just be plug and play at this point? I am slightly confused on the difference between 1G and 3G, always though it had to do with the wiring

I pulled all the 1G wiring out and replaced it with a harness that I purchased on eBay that came out of a 95/96 Mustang (can't remember what year). I went with it because it has the fusible links between the alternator and the battery to protect the circuit. Plus I didn't have a bunch of figuring out to do...plug it into the alternator and it was ready. I had the ammeter in the instrument panel converted to a voltmeter previously.

matnetik

Discussion Starter · #26 · 6 mo ago

Ah, fully understand now. Is there any reason I would need to go to a 3G? Powermaster makes a 7078 1G 55-75 Amp unit for $110 bones and it's a simple replacement. I have factory A/C, radio with 5 speakers and electric power steering. Wondering if this is enough or should I go the 3G route - just asking questions here!

Woodchuck

· #27 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
Ah, fully understand now. Is there any reason I would need to go to a 3G? Powermaster makes a 7078 1G 55-75 Amp unit for $140 bones and it's a simple replacement. I have factory A/C, radio with 5 speakers and electric power steering. Wondering if this is enough or should I go the 3G route - just asking questions here!

The 3G is more efficient and will charge better at low rpm. A 55A should do just fine with EPAS.

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cj428mach

· #28 · 6 mo ago

My 64 did the same thing with the power master alternator the previous owner installed. I had a spare 3g and EFI plans so I swapped in the 3g and the light flashing went away.

289vert

· #29 · 6 mo ago

95A 3g and headlight relays, you won't believe the difference.

matnetik

Discussion Starter · #30 · 6 mo ago

Great info, here’s the current plan, I ordered the Powermaster 7078 1G alternator since I have read both good and bad reviews, couldn’t find it on NPD so I Amazon’ed it. Going to pop it in, if it fixes the issue, amazing! If not, I’ll send it back and dive down the 3G route - I hope this solves it since I literally just purchased the new voltage regulator and noise suppressor. Not sure a headlight relay would change anything given that ALL my lights pulse, both the halogen and LED’s in the front end and interior. - Anyway, as always - thanks for all the help and will report back with info!

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matnetik

Discussion Starter · #31 · 6 mo ago

Well I installed the new alternator and no luck. Lights are all still pulsing, I did measure when I first started the car and the voltage was all over similar to the old alternator in the video from above.

In the video below, this measurement is after 10 minutes of running. As you can also see, all the lights are pulsing with the engine RPM - all exterior and interior.

So one question before I go the 3G route, is it possible I mixed up my “field” and “power” wire when I re-wired everything? Would the alternator still be charging the battery? Would the car seem normal with these reversed causing the pulsing? Just wanted to ask if anyone knew. Might test them tomorrow.

Also, thoughts on the PA Performance 1G to 3G kit vs purchasing an alternator and their “VR thingy” to make the Ammeter work? If I go the 3G route, I’d like to keep it as clean and simple as possible! Thanks in advance, as always!

Woodchuck

· #32 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
I did measure when I first started the car and the voltage was all over similar to the old alternator...

Which it will do as the regulator cuts in and out to keep the alternator from overcharging. Since you've switched to a lot of LED's you've reduced the load on the charging system to where the regulator is "cycling", recognizing an almost fully-charged battery....

Let my brain think for a minute... you said your alternator had 3 wires... a big one to the BAT post, a ground and one to the FLD post.... is that correct? That means you should have an ammeter in your instrument cluster and the GRN/RED wire to your voltage regulator goes into the "S" location? I wonder if your solid-state regulator has enough resistance in the "sense" circuit..... I'd be tempted, if you have a test light, to see what happens when you hook your alligator clip to ground and back-probe the "S" plug on the regulator with the test light.... with the engine idling, to see what it does for the "pulsing"....

matnetik

Discussion Starter · #33 · 6 mo ago

Woodchuck said:
Which it will do as the regulator cuts in and out to keep the alternator from overcharging. Since you've switched to a lot of LED's you've reduced the load on the charging system to where the regulator is "cycling", recognizing an almost fully-charged battery....

Let my brain think for a minute... you said your alternator had 3 wires... a big one to the BAT post, a ground and one to the FLD post.... is that correct? That means you should have an ammeter in your instrument cluster and the GRN/RED wire to your voltage regulator goes into the "S" location? I wonder if your solid-state regulator has enough resistance in the "sense" circuit..... I'd be tempted, if you have a test light, to see what happens when you hook your alligator clip to ground and back-probe the "S" plug on the regulator with the test light.... with the engine idling, to see what it does for the "pulsing"....

The only things that aren’t LED are the headlight bulbs and the fog light bulbs. Everything else is LED.

And correct on the three wires, BAT, ground and FLD. I do have an Ammeter (doesn’t really do much other than sit in the center haha,, probably just need to scrub the connectors). I have a test light, will give this a shot and see what happens. Thanks for the quick response here as always -

I’d love to just make what I have work if possible but ultimately if the 3G solves the issues I am 100% okay going that route. Given that I have tried a new alternator, replaced the VR and noise suppressor I would think that might be the next step. I would try headlight relays or replace the harness but given that ALL my lights pulse I think there is something else going on.

Woodchuck

· #34 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
The only things that aren’t LED are the headlight bulbs and the fog light bulbs. Everything else is LED.

And correct on the three wires, BAT, ground and FLD. I do have an Ammeter (doesn’t really do much other than sit in the center haha,, probably just need to scrub the connectors). I have a test light, will give this a shot and see what happens. Thanks for the quick response here as always -

I’d love to just make what I have work if possible but ultimately if the 3G solves the issues I am 100% okay going that route. Given that I have tried a new alternator, replaced the VR and noise suppressor I would think that might be the next step. I would try headlight relays or replace the harness but given that ALL my lights pulse I think there is something else going on.

FWIW, the lights "pulse" in my '05 Magnum R/T and have since the day it was new... 140k later and it still does it, with the original alternator.

matnetik

Discussion Starter · #35 · 6 mo ago

Haven’t had time to test yet, unfortunately had to have dental surgery on Wednesday. I decided to return the Powermaster I bought and ordered the 1G to 3G PA Performance kit, regardless if it fixes the lights pulsing or not, it will be much more solid to be on a 3G alternator as many have suggested. Will update once installed - cheers all

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matnetik

Discussion Starter · #36 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

~~Was about to put the old alternator back in, but before I do I decided to look at the wiring from the regulator - does anyone know if this is correct?~~

Well a quick search shows that yes, this is correct for a 68’ with an Ammeter - will try to back probe the green/red wire now -

No change on back probing the green/red wire. Question though, is the orange wire supposed to have any power? With ignition on or off the orange cable shows nothing, assuming this signals when the charge is happening - Just tested resistance and it is wired to the field post on the alternator which I believe is correct.

Yellow and green/red both show 12.8 v

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Woodchuck

· #37 · 6 mo ago

matnetik said:
~~Was about to put the old alternator back in, but before I do I decided to look at the wiring from the regulator - does anyone know if this is correct?~~

Well a quick search shows that yes, this is correct for a 68’ with an Ammeter - will try to back probe the green/red wire now -

No change on back probing the green/red wire. Question though, is the orange wire supposed to have any power? With ignition on or off the orange cable shows nothing, assuming this signals when the charge is happening - Just tested resistance and it is wired to the field post on the alternator which I believe is correct.

Yellow and green/red both show 12.8 v

The wire to the FLD post only receives current when the regulator signals the alternator to charge. This wire is responsible for sending current to the alternator rotor field windings, creating a magnetic field so that, as the rotor rotates and passes by the stator coils, an output current is generated.

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matnetik

Discussion Starter · #38 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

UPDATE HERE:

Installed the PA Performance 95A alternator with their dummy regulator and in-line fuse setup today. I think I did everything right as far as the wiring goes. The good news, WE HAVE SUCESS! No more light pulsing!! I mean at all, it was starting to rain so I could only run the car for a few minutes but they looked solid!

Now my only concern, with all accessories off (the radio may have been on) and the car on, I was getting 12.35 volts at the battery but it was steady, maybe .01 fluctuation which is awesome but it’s definitely not charging.. Pretty sure it’s the ground, I grounded from my engine ground strap to the alternators housing (see in picture below) and I should have grounded to the center bolt as the instructions recommend. I think this is why it’s not charging.

Or is it because I didn’t connect the original BAT wire from my harness to the B+ terminal? I was under the impression to not use the wire anymore since the 6 gauge cable/fuse is going to the solenoid.

As it is now from my cars harness to their harness/alt-
-orange (field) wire soldered and crimped to green/black
-yellow from their harness to B+ on alt
-white/black from their harness plugged in with pigtail to alt
-ground from engine block/ground strap to alt chassis (might be in wrong location)
-6 gauge wire with in-line fuse from B+ on alt to solenoid battery post
-original BAT wire from car is taped off and not being used

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289vert

· #39 · 6 mo ago

What have you got connected to the green/red wire at the alt pigtail?
It seems like the alt is not getting excited.

matnetik

Discussion Starter · #40 · 6 mo ago

289vert said:
What have you got connected to the green/red wire at the alt pigtail?

That’s my orange wire which goes to the VR - the field cable, 12v with ignition is switched on - I thought it was green/black for some reason - I believe it‘s the exciter wire and goes to the F terminal on the VR

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