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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My engine builder is building me a 331 stroker out of a 1979 302 block. He removed the heads and said that there are some strange holes in the heads(like emission tubes or something)He is not familiar with these type heads. Would that be some sort of smog emission stuff that he can just block off some way? He said that the block looks like a normal 302 but the heads got him in a quaundry! What year heads can I use on this 1979 block,or can I still use the ones he has? The engine only had 70K on it when I pulled it out of a 79 Mustang, so we want to stay with the block we have and maybe get some different heads. There are all kinds of good deals out there on Craigslist for heads in my area right now. I can't swing the alunimum heads right now so thats out of the question.

Thanks Dave
 

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They are holes for the thermactor (emissions control stuff). The only 302 head I would even begin to consider on a stroker would be '68 J code heads, and even they would be restrictive.

302 heads will kill even the best of strokers. Use the block and toss those heads. They're total dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Johnpro: Is there any other year heads that could be used besides your choice. My builder plans on portmatching and do all his tricks to the heads to boost the performance. i mean I will deffinately try to hunt down some 68 heads that you mentioned but what are my chances of finding some reasonably priced ones.

Thanks for the ultra quick reply...Dave

 

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Personally, I wouldn't even bother with ANY iron heads on a stroker, with the possible exception of the Windsor Jr. heads. If you're going to go to the expense and trouble of a stroker, do it right and get some decent after market heads for it, like AFR's or Trick Flows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
John Pro: I am strapped for cash right now and the guy is only charging me $200 to build my engine(I already bought the Performer RPM manifold and all of the 331 kit that was needed)is there any heads that would work good to fair. I am not building a racing engine,it's going to be a daily driver stroker. i just went with a stroker because it was not that much more to go that route. i am spending most of my money on the paintjob right now. What CI heads can be used(289/302/351??)I found a set of hipo 289 heads for a decent price so far(would they work alright?) I figure once the car is up and running I can always upgrade to alun heads. What year are the windsor JR heads? Maybe I could find them! Howabout gt-40 heads(I know where there is aset of them I can get for a deal?

Thanks again
 

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You should be able to fit 351W heads on a 302 without too much modification. You can also use 351C heads as well but it would require quite a bit of modification to cooling passages, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey how about these JOHNPRO(Ford 5.0 302 ported cylinder heads E7TE-PA Mustang - $295) or I found a set of SVT Mustang 302 heads for $200. If I know what to look for I can come up with it for sure!

Dave
 

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If I can throw in my .02,..... Are you sure they are real Hipos? If so,... what is a good deal? I'm not trying to come off condescending, however there are a lot of people who claim to have Hipos, when in fact they don't. Furthermore, If in fact you have stumbled across a real set, for a good price, they can be worth considerable money, for their originality, and it would be possible for you to profit from their resale, and acquire better heads to compliment your build. 289 Hipos were a better designed head for performance in their day, and still can work well within the application for which they were designed. But, 40 years of technology has made certain parameters more affordable. You now can purchase a set of Better flowing heads, With Bigger, and Better valves, Better chambers, seats, etc. for about the same price, as a good set of Hipos. Another thing for you to consider, is the type of piston you have bought. This will determine the size chamber you need, in order to build the motor to your desired compression ratio. Talk with your builder, as he should know what is best for your application. One last thing..... The easiest way to tell if they are True 289 Hipos is this.... On the top of the head, between the screw in rocker studs, will be the raised numbers "289". Directly above 289, will be 2 raised dots! regular heads only have one dot. Real Hipos also have recessed valve spring pockets, etc. Also be careful that their not service replacement heads, as this will affect their value. This can normally be determined by the presence of the letters HP, cast on the top, at the opposite end of the 289 double dot. If, you really must cut costs, you may want to consider later model heads like GT40s, as an alternative to the earlier ones, But again, Talk with your builder, and see what he recommends. :burnout:

J.R.
 

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66gt4spd said:
Hi Johnpro: Is there any other year heads that could be used besides your choice. My builder plans on portmatching and do all his tricks to the heads to boost the performance. i mean I will deffinately try to hunt down some 68 heads that you mentioned but what are my chances of finding some reasonably priced ones.

Thanks for the ultra quick reply...Dave
Another way of saying what Johnpro said is "No OEM Ford inline valve head is worth hunting down". The best stock head is probably GT-40P head, but they are priced slightly higher. However, this doesn't mean that you can't do anything with OEM heads. I have seen homeported 351W heads producing over 90% of what AFR185s produced on 306, however it took 8 hrs per runner. But even mild porting can do wonders specially in the case of notoriously bad SBF exhaust side.

However, don't waste your effort on those bathtub sized chambers in 70ies-80ies heads. And don't waste your money on rebuilding OEM without porting job, either, valve guides, valves, springs seats etc and you are paying as much as aftermarket heads. If the seats and valve guides are in good shape, you might do a nice budget head with a little porting.

Forget HiPo heads, apart from screw-in studs and once stiffer valve springs, they are no better than granny's 289 2V heads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok guys thanks for the replies,but i still have no idea what year and cubic inch head will work with my 79 block. Will all 289/302/351 heads work? Once again is there a certain year to look for(john pro said 68 J heads) and I have heard GT-40 heads also. I have found both but $500 is more than I want to spend right now.

Thanks
 

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I hate to be a thorn....But heads I have seen are a major cost item in a engine build...You may have to put a cover on the engine and put off the build until you can get the GT-40s atleast....If thats another month, no biggy...If something is worth doing, its worth doing right. I know the guy is offering $200 to build it, seems like a deal to me, but ask him if you can put off the heads for 4-6 weeks..That way, you can plan better and implement your plan for the best bang for dollar...You don't want to throw together and have a piss poor engine because of mismatched items...slow down and plan it out... :beer:
 

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Arto65FB said:
66gt4spd said:
Hi Johnpro: Is there any other year heads that could be used besides your choice. My builder plans on portmatching and do all his tricks to the heads to boost the performance. i mean I will deffinately try to hunt down some 68 heads that you mentioned but what are my chances of finding some reasonably priced ones.

Thanks for the ultra quick reply...Dave
Another way of saying what Johnpro said is "No OEM Ford inline valve head is worth hunting down". The best stock head is probably GT-40P head, but they are priced slightly higher. However, this doesn't mean that you can't do anything with OEM heads. I have seen homeported 351W heads producing over 90% of what AFR185s produced on 306, however it took 8 hrs per runner. But even mild porting can do wonders specially in the case of notoriously bad SBF exhaust side.

However, don't waste your effort on those bathtub sized chambers in 70ies-80ies heads. And don't waste your money on rebuilding OEM without porting job, either, valve guides, valves, springs seats etc and you are paying as much as aftermarket heads. If the seats and valve guides are in good shape, you might do a nice budget head with a little porting.

Forget HiPo heads, apart from screw-in studs and once stiffer valve springs, they are no better than granny's 289 2V heads.
This is good advice...The J-code heads only performance feature is that it had a small combustion chamber for higher compression..It is almost exactly the same as the pre 289 heads so its not worth "hunting down"...I would sit down with the engine builder and determine what size combustion chamber you need to go with that stroker to acheive a compression ratio that will be pump gas friendly.I suspect the early 289 or J-code heads would put you too high for pump gas...There is a very wide selection amongst the ford heads so you should be able to come up with something...The GT-P heads are great but have a funny spark plug angle and require special headers to fit...The early 69-75 351 windsor heads may be a good fit with 60cc chambers and bigger valves than the 289/302 heads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
GT-P Heads, is that another name for GT-40 heads? I am running exhaust manifolds(I hate headers!)so I don't think the angle of the plugs will affect which head I get. I can't wait 4-6 weeks as the prior poster said cause my financial situation is not going to change as far as how much money I have budgeted to get this engine done. When you have a house payment of $2385 a month it don't leave alot left over for the stang. Plus I have two young daughters that have needs and a very spoiled neeedy wife also. I have sold most of my motorcycle collection off already to get this done! i only have three left to sell(I did have 18 bikes before I started restoring this stang)

Dave
 

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gt heads are actually 2 types IIRC...GT-40p and GT-40X...
Sounds like u r doing a budget build and u said top performance doesn't matter. I think u want it on the road pretty quick...So I'd have 2 choices..a 351w set and the GT40p's and that'd be for the final decision....I'd ask questions on fitment of manifold to the heads...U may have to use stock mani's but know that that might lead to serious modifications for fitting into classic Stang...I'd try to go with the heads that is most likely to have come with the car, the 351...the manis will fit the old car and less likely for serious exhaust mods...but know that your stroker just got neutered....but it can be strong and erect with some extra cash later :shaking:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nuetered!!! Wow I did not know that a set of heads with some pocket porting and port matching could cause my stroker to be nuetered(ouch)

Dave
 

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What is the builder doing for $200? it sounds like he is just putting the engine together. Has the bottom end been balanced yet? Clearences checked? Block bored? If he has been building engines one would think he has seen most all engines and heads manufactured out there. It also sounds like you are trying to buy a set of used heads and just bolt them on and go. if the used heads need any sort of work you will discover it would have been a couple bucks more and you could have a nice set of after market aluminum heads. I'm not sure how the stock mustang exhaust manifolds will fit the GT-40P heads. I would research this before buying the P version heads. Running older heads can pose a problem depending on how big the cam lift is. the older heads have pressed in studs that can be pulled out by high lift high spring pressure cams. It's also been my understanding that Hipo heads only offer the valve spring pocket over the stock early heads. They share the same valve size and port sizes. The 351W head has a slightly larger vlave set up and port sizes. Everything is affected by the year it was made. The builder really should be pointing you in the direction you need to be going.
 

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What piston did you buy? ie; Domed, Flat top, Dished?

(1) Build heads to your desired Compression Ratio!

What we're trying to say is this.... With cast Iron heads, It's very difficult to run a motor on pump gas at over 9.5:1 CR. You will need to know which pistons you have, to figure this out. I Believe that GT-40s have about 65-65.5cc chambers before any shop has milled them. These heads will out flow a set of standard windsors, and probably have larger chambers, unless someone has milled them. Assuming you have dished pistons, you will probably need at least 64cc heads to build an engine that will run decent on pump gas. This still depends on whether or not your block has had much milled off of it, to clean up the deck surface. IMO any Cast Iron head with a chamber smaller than 61cc, will probably not produce the results you are after. If your builder is going to do all the porting, and tricks, That's great, then he should be able to help you with your proper head selection. Good Hunting....

J.R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK: First of all let me start by saying my engine builder is quite qualified to build my engine. He built the engine for my Cuda and that was nasty fast for a 340,he also has a buick that will pull 10s in the quarter that he totally built from the ground up! That being said he has never seen a set of heads like the ones that came off of my 79 302 engine that i purchased from a local junkyard(that they pulled out of a fox body stang)Second he owes me a ton of favors and we are working on the barter system(you scratch my back i scratch yours)so money really don't come into play much with our arrangement. He has already bored the block to 60 over and installed the 331 stroker stuff. The compression is going to be around 9 to 1 so i can still run pump gas and the cam we are going with is a 292 Comp Cam(because I want the super lopey idle) I am hoping to get around 300HP out of it when finished,I am not into racing and the speed limits around my area are only 65 at the most! I don't plan on bringing it to B.I.R and pounding the piss out of it. It is going to be a daily driver weekend car/show car. My engine builder said that whatever heads we get he will do a nice job of port matching and other little tricks he knows. he is checking with some of his connections that know more about head swapping on fords than he does.

Dave
 

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The thing is you can't really know what the compression ratio is till you pick a head..The instructions with the pistons should tell you what compression you will be at with a certain combustion chamber size..You could vary it by more that two full compression points with the various heads made over the years....9:1 compression is a little low for that camshaft..10 or 10.5 would be better..I was running that cam in my 302 with only 9:1 compression and it worked ok but I was also running a 4 speed and 4:11 gears..It should work better with the extra cubes you have but that long duration likes some compression to go with it.
 

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Definitely find out what combustion chamber size is needed for your pistons to get your desired compression. Stock heads have different combustion chamber size, so we could recommend a set of 69/70 351w heads and you could end up with 7:1 compression. On the flipside, we could recommend a set of heads and without know what combustion chamber you need you could end up with 13:1 compression. Have your engine builder determine what combustion chamber size you need and we'll help you find a head that will work.
 
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