Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,782 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As some of you may know, I am in the middle of swapping the passenger and driver’s side cylinder heads, due to the alternator mounting bolt shearing off while on the road (if you don’t know, look here.

Anyhow, I have pulled both heads, and I discovered that I had installed the passenger side head gasket backwards/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif. Driver’s side was OK. I started cleaning up the block and the cylinder head. IU scraped the head with my ‘garage’ spatula and vacuumed the loose stuff from the head. Similar process for the block.

I’ve got the passenger side head gasket and head on the car, and am a stopping point, where I am seeking some opinions.

I have purchased ARP # 154-3601, 170k PSI head bolts (picked it up for 31.06, lowest price schedule from ARP, less than Summit!). Instructions, of course recommend ARP brand thread lube. The instructions also reference 30W oil, but shun it (like it is completely inferior and completely insufficient). I would like to know what type of lube I should use for the head bolts? ARP lube, engine assembly lube (moly lube), 30W oil, anti-seize compound, what? I previously have only used 30W oil, but the newer components are sometime applied differently.
Additionally, ARP recommends to torque bolts to 65 using ARP moly lube, 85 ft-lbs using 30W oil. Those #s appear reasonable.

Secondly, I have purchased a new oil pump, since the drive rod to the dizzy slipped and fell into the bottom of the oil pan when I pulled the dizzy as I was disassembling the components for the head. I have purchased a Sealed Power # 224-41128, high volume oil pump. Any good? I figured that with 110k+ on the clock, it would be a smart move to replace the oil pump now, rather than later…
I also picked up a Ford Motorsports M-6605-A302 dizzy driveshaft. I figured that it was a small price to pay for the component.
Does the pointy end go into the dizzy?

Comments are welcomed…
 

·
Moderatly Old Fart
Joined
·
4,428 Posts
A Hi Volume oil pump is great for loose bearings. It sort of takes up the slack. If I recall the short end if the oil pump shaft goes in the oil pump. The long end goes in the dist. Be sure to put in the round clip which prevents the shaft from pulling out when you take out the distributor.

There are two Motorsport shafts. One is for the late 5.0 and the other is for the classic engines. I think you have the right one.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,855 Posts
Hey Steve, sorry about your misfortune.

On my aluminum heads I went with the anti-sieze compound, because it's going to stay on the threads, prevent galling, and make it easier to get the bolts back out later. That really isn't a concern with what you are doing. Still, ARP is a very good fastener company, and I guess I'd want to follow their recommendations and use the moly lube. That being said, dollars to doughnuts, it won't make any difference.

IIRC that's the same pump I put in my car. Personnally I wouldn't do it again. When I do extended high RPM driving (say over 4000 rpm) I end up with excessive amounts of oil being blown out of the valve cover breather. The research I've done since, indicates that a standard pump is better, unless modifications are made to the engine block to get it to increase oiling and specifically make the drainbacks from the valve areas better. What happens (I think) is you put so much oil up into the valve covers that it can't drain back as fast as you're pumping it in. Eventually you get oil mist blowing out your breather and making a big mess. I guess if it went on long enough it could cause oil starvation at the pump, but I'm not sure it could ever get THAT bad. It just make a mess.

Since you've already got the pump, maybe you'll just want to put it in and see what happens. If you end up with my problem, at least we'll know for sure the pump is the culprit. You could look at it as an experiment to advance the science of Mustanging /forums/images/icons/wink.gif.

I looked and looked and looked at the pump shaft and I couldn't figure out why it would matter which end went where. I'll wait for Pat or someone else to jump in and explain why it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that it goes in the proper end. Then I'll obsess about it, because I have NO IDEA which way I ended up installing mine.

Sounds like you're having a good time. Good Luck.

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,587 Posts
Since you're rebuilding and the threads in the block are likely contaminated with other lubricant, I'd just go with the 30W since you have it...if you have the ARP lube, use it. You can use those head bolts with aluminum heads (cheap alternative) but I guess you have cast iron (don't remember)

Oil pump is fine for your application...exact same pump I ran for years on the little engines in the race car...nary a problem to be seen and I ran some pretty big bearing clearances..

Pump shaft is same basic model I run in the W, except fits 289/302...pointy end towards distributor, friction washer on hex between that end's round area and block (shaft must go in from bottom before installing oil pump)

Don't forget that one of your head gaskets may end up upside down for the "front" to go to the front...I've caught myself making that mistake (putting both gaskets on right side up regardless of front) more than once.......oh, and don't forget to use new gaskets! (I know you will but who knows who reads these posts *G*)

Good luck!

PS...5/16" M42 cobalt mill in horzontal mill turning at about 120 rpm will remove a 3/8 or 7/16" grade 8 bolt remnant nearly every time. Unless I had a tilting table on a low rpm drill press, I likely wouldn't even try it....the points break off or the flutes rub off from too much rpm and not enough accurate pressure...sometimes it's better to take it to a shop! *G*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,782 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Pat,

Once again, you have confirmed my suspicions and removed any hesitance I may have had. Thanks!!!!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
I do have cast iron heads. I had contemplated going with the AFR heads that Phil is using, but just can't do that now, with a major house remodel about to commence (Mucho positive brownie points with SWMBO on that /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).
Point taken on the head gasket. That is exactly what occured with me last time. I suspect some of my cooling problems were attributed to that passenger side head gasket being installed backwards. I have new (and had always planned on using new) head gaskets for the install. New intake gaskets are going in as well.
I've got some moly lube, just not ARP brand. I have chased the threads on the block, heads with a tap, and vacuumed the crap out of them. I will proceed with moly lube and torque to the higher #s, unless you reply not to.
One more question, when I go to prime the oil pump, do I run the drill clockwise, or CCW? I can't rmemeber for the life of me. My rebuilding small block fords book might say. I'll check. Otherwise, I'll just have to figure it out./forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
I had thought of taking it to someone with a mill, but I felt there was still a chance that the remnant would cause the interface to get bungled. I did get a little action with the cobalt dril bits, but once the bit got near the cast iron, it started RUNNIN there, not walking/forums/images/icons/wink.gif. I prematurely gave up on that, under the fear I would penetrate the water jacket in that part of the head/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif. I am taking the sure fire approach, and in doing that, have discovered my previous doofus, and will ahopefully extend the life of my motor another 100k, by installing a fresh oil pump.

Let me know on the moly lube ( I suspect anyone's moly lube will work, ARP always is going to push their product over brand X) and the oil pump priming direction.

Thanks for the detailed info!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,782 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Pat,

Once again, you have confirmed my suspicions and removed any hesitance I may have had. Thanks!!!!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
I do have cast iron heads. I had contemplated going with the AFR heads that Phil is using, but just can't do that now, with a major house remodel about to commence (Mucho positive brownie points with SWMBO on that /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).
Point taken on the head gasket. That is exactly what occured with me last time. I suspect some of my cooling problems were attributed to that passenger side head gasket being installed backwards. I have new (and had always planned on using new) head gaskets for the install. New intake gaskets are going in as well.
I've got some moly lube, just not ARP brand. I have chased the threads on the block, heads with a tap, and vacuumed the crap out of them. I will proceed with moly lube and torque to the higher #s, unless you reply not to.
One more question, when I go to prime the oil pump, do I run the drill clockwise, or CCW? I can't rmemeber for the life of me. My rebuilding small block fords book might say. I'll check. Otherwise, I'll just have to figure it out./forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
I had thought of taking it to someone with a mill, but I felt there was still a chance that the remnant would cause the interface to get bungled. I did get a little action with the cobalt drill bits, but once the bit got near the cast iron, it started RUNNIN there, not walking/forums/images/icons/wink.gif. I prematurely gave up on that, under the fear I would penetrate the water jacket in that part of the head/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif. I am taking the sure fire approach, and in doing that, have discovered my previous doofus, and will ahopefully extend the life of my motor another 100k, by installing a fresh oil pump.

Let me know on the moly lube ( I suspect anyone's moly lube will work, ARP always is going to push their product over brand X) and the oil pump priming direction.

Thanks for the detailed info!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,587 Posts
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you....today was our big supply day....went into town with two ice chests and shopped for food and sundries...

Anyway, yeah, use your lube but back off the ARP spec just a tad, maybe down to 80...

Distributor goes CCW, oil pump shaft goes CCW...hehehe...you'll need a reversible drill to prime...


You've likely got all this done but I just didn't want you to think I forgot ya...*G*

Hope things went well and putting that head gasket on upside down didn't bug you too much..hehehe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,782 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Haven't gotten to priming the oil pump today.

Did get the head on the passenger side. Tourqued bolts to 85.

Ended up frightened after the head was torqued. Verified gasket was installed properly by using a piece of baling wire bent at the end to 'find' the holes at the aft end of the block. Also verified front of head was 'blocked' at the same relative place.

Got the oil pan installed, passenger side head on.

I've got quite a bit more work to do, as the #8 cylinder header tube has a stress crack all the way around it. This is the second time it has cracked near there. I will weld in a layer of metal on top of that tube to 'beef' that boy up a little. more POR-20 to the rescue for the coating.

Also, spend a considerable amount of time cleaning up the cylinder head. I block sanded it and blew it down well with compressed air.

More tomorrow evening. Might run on Friday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,587 Posts
Ended up frightened after the head was torqued

hehehe...you know what they say about getting back up on the horse...

#8 cylinder header tube has a stress crack all the way around it. This is the second time it has cracked near there.

If feasible, plate it...vibration stress cracking usually comes about from the metal work-hardening and IME, repairs to the original material are ineffectual long-term.

Massive stress cracking (from vibration and wheelstands) are what prompted me to put a front chassis and struts in the race car...I got tired of always welding up the shock towers, even with reinforcements...

BTW, I recommend pre-oiling a few minutes before firing the engine, especially if you're running a lot of compression.....you can do it now, but if you let it set for a week, I'd still recommend pulling the plugs and spinning the engine up with the starter to freshen the oil spaces. This will also prevent hydraulic'ing if something in your assembly procedure went wrong...

I know, I'm not very adventurous...*G*

Good luck and hope it works out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,782 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks, Pat.

I will pre-oil the engine prior to firing. I will spin the oil pump with the valve covers off (or put on my adjuster style covers that still make quite a mess), so I can see the oil coming out of the rocker arms. Of course, the electric drill loading up and the oil pressure guage will be the real devices that notify me that the pump is working.

With regard to the header, I plan on exactly that. I've got some sheet metal laying around and plan on bead blasting the header again to clean up the areas I need to weld up. The cool part about this is that the Navy base where I work (Point Mugu) has a bead blaster in the auto hobby shop and it costs me only $2.50 per hour!

Thanks again, Pat...
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top