Vintage Mustang Forums banner

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

Registered
Joined
7,944 Posts
I have the FI Tech 400 unit (the cheaper one), it has worked great, it is paired with the Fuel Command Center - which had problems until I removed the float/shut off valve and turned it into a continuous flow through surge tank - since then it has worked great as well.

The Sniper unit sounds like a better overall deal though as the company support is likely to be better, and there is a MUCH higher probability of Holley being around in the future.
 

Registered
Joined
1,160 Posts
Hey VMFers. I presently running a 347 with a 600 double pumper Holley (4160). Running Edelbrock
Performer RPM top kit(heads cam manifold). I have a nice external hollley electric pump. Would like to retain it if I could. Also want to use my existing fuel lines or do I need to run new lines. I like the Holley SNIPER. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU CATS HAVE USED AND WORKED. OH YEAH ALSO SOMETHING I DONT NEED TO PAY FOR UPDATED SOFTWARE MAPS OR FLASHES.

GUIDO LIVE馃弫
Honestly...I don't understand why people want to convert to EFI that is throttle body injection. You are defeating the whole purpose of going EFI if you are restricting yourself to carb manifolds. If your only goal with EFI is a somewhat more fuel efficient engine and better starting...ok, I can see that....but for me the goal of converting to EFI is to make more power in addition to that. So, if you want to make more power(or change the power curve of your engine) you are far better off with Multi-Point port fuel injection and an EFI manifold...they make a lot of different manifolds for EFI engines that will let you tune your power curve exactly how you want:

https://www.holley.com/products/intakes/efi_manifolds/parts/300-273

https://mooregoodink.com/kaase-debuts-p-38-cross-ram-for-windsor/

https://www.yearone.com/Product/1964-73-mustang/bbk5002

These manifolds are far more appealing than most any carb manifold with TBI sitting on it when talking about EFI(of course all those are expensive, but you can find similar EFI designs for reasonable prices if you look). The point is...why bother with EFI if you are just going to throw away most(but not all) of the potential gains just to have your engine look factory?

Or alternatively, if you have fabrication skills...and a TIG welder, you can build your own manifold with a custom runner length and taper designed exactly for whatever engine you build...but that is out of the range of what most people are willing to tackle(and a months-long project in itself)
 

Registered
Joined
2,987 Posts
I think you answered your own question: simplicity, cost, and more original appearance, without the hassle of tuning and maintaining a carb. are all benefits of TB injection. You lose very little performance to a MPFI, you're certainly not "throwing away most(but not all) of the potential gains". Lets face it, most people can't or don't tune their carb. to perfection, so even a TB system will result in performance gains.
 

Registered
Joined
1,530 Posts
Even if you don't get direct or multiport injection, you still get closed loop tuning which means that regardless of environmental conditions, your are never running rich or lean. I got tired of having to tweak my carburetor every time the weather changes so that my car didn't smell like it was running rich (wife has a sensitive nose). Also you no longer have to worry about a choke and getting it setup because it is taken care of in closed-loop. You also get idle increase when the AC or (if equipped) electric fan kicks on.
 

Registered
Joined
1,160 Posts
Fair enough...still a lot of cost to avoid tuning and maintaining a carb though. I am a big fan of EFI, but TBI is purposely limiting some benefits, MPFI is smoother in the low RPM range. If my only choices were between an EFI system with TBI and a carb...I would choose the carb every time, but that is just me and is based purely off of cost(since I dont mind tinkering and tuning constantly)
 

Registered
Joined
1,160 Posts
I did it mostly get the convenience of modern EFI, while keeping the vintage appearance under the hood. I have never regretted the choice. :)
Speaking of this...not that they are used on Mustangs, but I did think these ITBs in a sidedraft Weber skin were pretty awesome:




I am sure someone makes them for the more traditional upright individual carbs as well...still, you could make a manifold to use faux-Weber sidedrafts like this...it wouldn't look stock of course, but it could still look like a vintage race setup
 

Registered
Joined
1,149 Posts
I choose the TB injection in order to keep my Shaker. Also didn't see intakes for a Cleveland motor.


What he said......
And it鈥檚 awesome.....


I was just taking a ride in a street rod truck a couple weeks ago and it had a hot WINDSOR in it. Nice truck, awesome motor.
Ran like crap because of a piss poor tuning of a carb.
And they have been trying and trying to get it right...

Drop a sniper on and run the crap out of it. It鈥檚 awesome!

Opinion of 1.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Registered
Joined
346 Posts
Another thumbs up :thumbsup: for the Holley Sniper EFI from a friend in the Pantera club who recently installed one in a '56 Chevy hot rod pickup truck, and now plans to install it on his cars. Here are his comments posted to the DeTomaso Mail List...

[DeTomaso] Holley Sniper fuel inkjection
We just installed a Holley Sniper on a friends 1956 Chevy Hot Rod Pickup with a 383 ci. small block with a 700r4 overdrive automatic transmission two weeks ago.We went with the whole conversion. The Sniper injection, fuel system and Holley Sniper distributor so we could control the timing with the sniper computer. It took two days to install as we did a few things differently than what came in the kit. He previously had an Edelbrock 600 CFM carburetor and a Chevy HEI distributor.

So far it is working amazingly well. He says if he didn't know better, we changed his the engine in his truck to a larger one. It has significantly more power and runs smoother. Much better cold driveability and part throttle response. I believe most of the improvement was because his old distributor did not have the correct timing curve and the carburetor was too small.

There are a few things we did differently versus what the instructions say. We welded in an oxygen sensor bung versus the drilled and clamped-on bung that comes with the sniper. We also used 3/8 copper-nickle tubing for most of the fuel system versus the push-lok rubber hose that comes with the sniper. I only used the push-lok hose in a few places for vibration or movement. I used it at the throttle body, between the fuel tank and fuel pump and filters.

There are a few things to know when doing the Sniper conversion. There is a lot more wiring than it looks like in the sales pictures. A lot of it is not used as it is a universal system so it has wiring for several different ignition types. Most injection systems DO NOT like magnetic pickup distributors. That is one of the reasons we got the Holley sniper distributor as it is a Hall effect ,and it plugs right in. We also shielded the trigger wire, as on the Chevy engines the distributor is at the rear, which is also where the wiring comes out of the throttle body and we did not want any problems.

Also inspect everything when you first receive it before starting the conversion. We did not receive the clear distributor rotor cover used when locking the timing. A quick phone call to Summit Racing where we purchased the Sniper got a new one sent to us in less than a week.

It went so well installing the sniper on his truck I plan on installing the same Sniper system on a few of my cars, including my Pantera which has a 650 hp 427 stroker in it. Richard #5919
 

Premium Member
Joined
248 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
All great info thanks Guys. Some are against the EFI bolt on sorry no welding involved馃ぃ. I鈥檓 constantly tuning my holley. After parking it in the garage after a drive just smell of Raw HCs. Creeps in the house. Family smells it. It鈥檚 adjusted correctly. New gas tank new cap all new fuel lines. So I want something more efficient. Steering towards Holley sniper. 馃馃徏
 

Registered
Joined
181 Posts
If anyone is interested, I have worked with several people tuning their Sniper and other Holley systems remotely. I can also provide guidance for proper wiring. This step is often overlooked and causes all kinds of issues. The Sniper (and all ECUs) are susceptible to RF noise, but with proper wiring practices, this can be easily avoided. The RF issue is especially relevant on Ford engines that have the distributor in the front, very close to where the Sniper ECU is located in the TB.

Andrew
 

Registered
Joined
2,153 Posts
@andrewb70 tried quoting you but apparently that isn't working with the new software upgrade

So is there a general layout/routing of wires for Ford motors? 351C in particular.
 

Registered
Joined
1,149 Posts
ANDREW,

So would I just data log on a full pull out on the road and send you an export?

What鈥檚 your belief on how beneficial a custom tune can get out of a super sniper than had 100miles of learning at both cruise and hit rodding around.

I鈥檓 considering taking it to a local guy who has a Dyno and says he tunes snipers.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Registered
Joined
181 Posts
@andrewb70 tried quoting you but apparently that isn't working with the new software upgrade

So is there a general layout/routing of wires for Ford motors? 351C in particular.
It's not so much the general layout of the wires, as much as it is following wiring best practices. For instance, the main power leads from the Sniper MUST go to the battery. The whole car must also have and excellent ground system. There should be a good ground from the battery to the engine and a big ground steam from the engine to the body (or two straps!). All the wiring terminations must be done with quality terminals, not the stuff you get at the local auto parts store. I use uninsulated terminals that I purchase from Waytek Wire. They have an incredible selection of ring and butt connectors. I use marine grade heat shrink on all the terminals, because it has heat activated adhesive inside, which reduces the chance of moisture creating in. It is also imperative that proper crimping tools be used based on the kind of terminals that are being used. The crimpers must also be used properly.

Some people have also reported no RF issues with the hood open, but issues with the hood closed. This happens because the hood (and sometimes even the air cleaner) can act as a RF deflector. This can be mitigated with a good ground strap from the body to the hood, or in the case of the air cleaner, a ground strap from the block to the air cleaner base.

Wires should also be routed away from spark plug wires. The plug wires and the boots should be in great condition and a healthy amount of dielectric grease should be use on the boots at the spark plug and also at the distributor.

I also like to add an auxiliary power distribution center. Bussmann makes a really good one and has room for 5 relays (up to 30amps) and 10 fuses. This particular panel also has two internal busses, one that feeds the 30 terminal on the relay and the other feeding the 86 terminal. This gives a lot fo flexibility in how it can be wired. For instance, I like to put the ignition system on it's own relay, and it obviously needs to energize as soon as the key is in the RUN position. Other circuits, like electric fuel pump and cooling fans, can be on their own circuits, and those are activated by the Sniper ECU. This particular distribution center uses Metripack 280 series terminals and cable seals and has a rubber sealed cover, which makes it all very water resistant.

As the saying goes (the devil is in the details(.

Andrew
 

Registered
Joined
181 Posts
ANDREW,

So would I just data log on a full pull out on the road and send you an export?

What鈥檚 your belief on how beneficial a custom tune can get out of a super sniper than had 100miles of learning at both cruise and hit rodding around.

I鈥檓 considering taking it to a local guy who has a Dyno and says he tunes snipers.
Mike,

Every tune is custom. Each Sniper system must be tailored to the particular engine, and the rest of the vehicle combination. I specialize in tuning idle and optimizing drivability. This is an area where most "tuners" don't want to handle because it is very time consuming. Tuning for max power on the dyne is simple and fast. I can get max WOT power fueling and timing done in 3-4 pulls, that part is straightforward. A smooth, steady idle and good drivability is much harder to achieve and take patience from the tuner and the customer. It also requires multiple datalog sessions.

I have a process that I use for remote tuning, which has worked well. In fact, I was working with someone from AZ today (I am i the Louisville area).

Andrew
 

Hi, how ya doin?
Joined
1,808 Posts
Andrew, I have a 1987 5.0 in my 69 Coupe with a Pertronix II distributor, can I run that dist with the Holley Sniper TB system?.
 

Registered
Joined
38 Posts
I have used several Fitech,Holley and Fast systems. Fitech is hit and miss and their customer service is not great.Holley systems are good with good customer service. I use a lot of Fast XFI stuff though which is not all plug and play but has way more tuneablility. Go with the Holley for plug and play.
 

Registered
Joined
1,149 Posts
Mike,

Every tune is custom. Each Sniper system must be tailored to the particular engine, and the rest of the vehicle combination. I specialize in tuning idle and optimizing drivability. This is an area where most "tuners" don't want to handle because it is very time consuming. Tuning for max power on the dyne is simple and fast. I can get max WOT power fueling and timing done in 3-4 pulls, that part is straightforward. A smooth, steady idle and good drivability is much harder to achieve and take patience from the tuner and the customer. It also requires multiple datalog sessions.

I have a process that I use for remote tuning, which has worked well. In fact, I was working with someone from AZ today (I am i the Louisville area).

Andrew
My driveability / streetability is REALLY good right now with the super sniper and hyperspark.
Which makes me wonder if I鈥檓 leaving til end power on the table.
Which is why I want to put it on a chassis Dyno.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Top