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Discussion Starter #1
My friend with the 1968 Seafoam Green GTCS just got his sheet back from the Pensacola National. I know a number of people on the forum have seen his car, which is an outstanding restoration. He typically loses only 7 or 8 points on the car and since he first entered it in National/Grand National MCA shows in 1997 he has won nothing but Gold awards (six to date). The car would be retired at the Grand National last year, if the grille medallion program hadn't been developed.

At Pensacola, however, the judges saw fit to deduct 20 points, which barely got him the Gold. In fact, if the gold card judge hadn't told him to roll the window down to hide the rock chip he probably would have only received a Silver. Also, there are a number of items identical on our cars that he did not receive a deduction for, but I did. He also has more notes without deductions than I do (*G* I don't have any, actually). Several items for which he received deductions are original parts on the car. The evidence is mounting....

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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I concur the the Pensacola judges must have been out in the sun a bit too long. Chuck's GTCS seems almost perfect - I have a hard time believing that too many points could be rightfully deducted. Dickson

1965 GT fastback / "Fastbasketcase" (by Midlife)
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness" - Dave Barry
 

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Wow, I'm glad I was just spectating at that show and my Stang was 15 or so states away! That Cal Special was incredible. I'm sure neither your friends nor you deserved those judging sheets!

DanM
66 Coupe, check her out at http://www.66CoupeNW.stangnet.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education" - Albert Einstein
 

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I've seen better eyes on a potato!
Oh wait... that's a baseball one...

Too bad you can't call for a recount. Did these guys have friends/family with cars in the show?

You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!!!
66 200 3-spd Coupe - emberglo, daily driver
65 289 4-spd Conv - Rangoon Red (what else)
66 Shelby - Red and Ready to be Restored
 

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Sounds like some home cookin! I bet there friends all did well. Maybe you didnt leave the proper dollar amount taped under the dash? They owned Chevys I bet.
 

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Now I can see why some of the recent Mustang magazines had articles about taking the show cars off the trailers and driving them so they can enjoy the hours of their labor.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I agree, I know the car really well and would be hard pressed to take off even 10 points, much less 20. The funny thing is he lost a point for his antenna, too. The judges got so nit-picky on his they took a point off for the top of the round base being flat rather than round (or vice-versa, I can't remember). I believe it is the original antenna on the car.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, you got to have a hobby to keep you sane. I got tired of bamboo shoots under the fingernails and decided to try concours trailered competition, instead. *LOL*

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What a lot of people don't know about his car is that he drove (not trailered) it twice across the country in Mustangs Across America in 1994 and 1996 after he had restored it. The trips were from Tucson to Charlotte and Tucson to Atlanta, the last in pouring rain most of the way.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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That's ah, interesting. I'm amazed such bias exists. This is how people get turned off by the hobby. Glad you're willing to hang tough as stay in.

Regards,

Dean T

Shikatta Ga Nai - "It cannot be helped"
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's the plan! Today, I shipped my carburetor off to Pony Carburetors, dropped my radiator off at the shop to be flushed and pressure-tested, and made the appointment with the machine shop to take the engine in. Meanwhile, Chuck worked on taking parts off my engine and sanding in the engine bay. We're already hard at work!

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's one of the reasons why I've been posting about this (besides just being generally ticked off, *G*). I've been working with a number of people to come up with ideas to improve the MCA. Current statistics show that MCA is losing 1.5 members for every new member signed up. That trend has to stop. It's bad enough for my friend and me to have bad judging, but it's even worse for it to happen to a first-timer like it did to Midlife. At least he has people on forum to discuss it with, but others don't. We can't allow judging problems like this to continue, so I'm speaking out a lot.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Thanks for sticking up for me...I appreciate it.

MCA needs to promote more a class just to show the cars off without judging. CT says they have this class, but damned if I saw it at Pensacola. I know Midlife is not concours, nor even close to it, but it is a fine, working specimen of a Mustang, and is a good #2/2.5 car, deserving of being showed off. Sure, I like to brag about it, but doesn't everyone like to brag about their car? You betcha! MCA only likes those that brag that look like just out of the showroom....and some judges have hazy notions of what that showroom looked like nearly 40 years ago.

Once, a long time ago, CT suggested I go to a MCA event and help him "judge", and start the process to become certified. After that escape, I think not. (No reflection on you, CT!). This is not what MCA should be about.

OK, back to regularly scheduled programming.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/baymustang/platesmall.jpgLet me check your shorts! My multimeter is just a-waiting! Formerly known as Midlife in the old VMF.
King of the Old Farts *struts*
 
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you know... in a remote, obscure way, the judging did slightly damage the reputation/value of the car. Not that you would ever sell it, but if the time came and you used your MCA juding to show what level the car is, that Bronze award could possibly be a hinderance.

Anyway, something to think about.

Charles Turner
MCA Gold Card Judge(64.5-65, 66)
'65 Fastback
'00 GT Conv, triple black


Check out my 65 [color:blue]fastback!</font color=blue>
 

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Laurie, thanks for the discussion. 20+ years ago a concours Mustang was an extreme rarity. As suggested by Midlife and yourself, those of us with mildy modified - which I guess would be anything out of concours - feel largely ostrisized in that kind of environment. There is not, as far as I know, any other organization that has a venue for judging modified Mustangs other than popular vote. Unfortunately, popular vote sometime plays biasly. Perhaps MCA could fill this void and generate renewed interest in their organization by setting up a modified judging, something that recognizes quality of workmanship and materials. Perhaps it could weigh period correctness in favor of 'RestoMod'. While a reach here, perhaps 'RestoMod' could also be separated under the guise of parts and modifications unavailable until 10 years after build date -or- 1983. That could place a burden on those of us having vintage-modifications to research and document what was available and when..... Thanks for letting me ramble.

Tom Kubler, Long-time Mustang Enthusiast & San Antonio Mustang Club Founder
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You're welcome, and I do mean it. No, your car is not concours, but it is a great looking Mustang and if you really wanted to go the concours route it wouldn't be that hard. Yes, mine is concours, but at the same time I wouldn't describe it as showroom condition. After all, I know where that car has been and what it has been through. However, after we're done it probably will be showroom condition. *G*

Rethink the judging certification, please. We need people like you to help change the system. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease (like my engine did from the tranny leak, *LOL*). BTW, there is a nonjudged class at the MCA shows. It's called Retired and you have to get five golds to qualify. The other is called Pony Corral, and you know what goes there. Hang in there, and come to Pensacola next year. We'll be there with Murphy and probably Trouble, too.

BTW, I like your new title.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Oh yes, that thought has been in the back of my mind for quite some time and I am really dreading seeing the show results in the upcoming Mustang Times. No, the car is not for sale--although in a moment of anger after receiving my judging sheets I briefly considered it--and the value to me is unchanged. Nevertheless, I know that I have to protest this to MCA even if nothing happens. At least it will go on record and people will be aware of it (I hope).

I love it when a plan comes together!

[color:red]1968 Coupe, "Murphy" - Original (car and owner)</font color=red>
[color:blue]1968 Fastback, "Trouble" - Restomod</font color=blue>
[color:white]1967-1968 MCA Certified Judge</font color=white>
 
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