Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, on my 69 351W I added a reverse water pump (which has a DS exit) to the original timing chain cover. The water pump completely covers the timing mark.

I am sure I am not the first person to run into this. For those who have, how did you time your engine? Vacuum?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I did by a Ford Racing balancer for a 351W and it came with a pointer but I was under the impression it mounts on a newer style TC cover. Could it be mounted somewhere else?

Timing tape? Never heard of that. How would that be used?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Fox body pointer is the easiest option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,913 Posts
I did by a Ford Racing balancer for a 351W and it came with a pointer but I was under the impression it mounts on a newer style TC cover. Could it be mounted somewhere else?

Timing tape? Never heard of that. How would that be used?

Thanks

I think the fox body pointer is the same as the later 351s. Either way, the '70 and up had a drivers side water pump inlet, so you could find a timing pointer for a '70 with a 351W, and it will be right. To have timing marks in the right spot, you'll either need a new balancer, with marks in the 10 'o'clock position, or you can buy a timing tape and use your current balancer. Timing tape is a piece of tape with timing marks, that you can install wherever you need the 0* mark, at TDC.


Summit Racing SUM-163594 - Summit Racing® Timing Tape - Overview - SummitRacing.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,448 Posts
Locate TDC using piston stop. Use any pointer you want. Install timing tape referencing TDC to pointer. Done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the info and suggestions! I really appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,167 Posts
I have a similar issue but even worse. The blower and blower belt take up virtually all the room on the PS. I used timing tape and made my own pointer with a thick coat hanger. I found 0 degrees on the original pointer then put on the tape in a place that was easy to see. I then used a bolt hole by the sending unit to attach the wire to. Bend it to line up and now it is ready. Works great!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I ordered the timing tape and the balancer I bought came with a pointer. I will set it up on the PS.

As a side note, I did finally get it running on Friday night for the first time. Turns out I was way advanced. Maybe that's why the headers were glowing :eek:)

Can wait to break it in fully and set the idle!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
So, on my 69 351W I added a reverse water pump (which has a DS exit) to the original timing chain cover. The water pump completely covers the timing mark.
Who's pump (for what year and model vehicle) did you use and does anyone know if a 351W timing cover would fit on a 302 (I'm assuming it will as the blocks are so similar)?

I ask these because this might help me with a problem. I have a 94 5.0L engine that I am going to refit with a carb and drop into my 69. I would like to keep the serpentine belt system, but I don't want to run an electric fuel pump. I would prefer to go to a stock mechanical pump, but the 94's cover doesn't have this provision. I still have my original 69 timing cover, but I understand that the 94's water pump won't work with it. Depending on what you used for a water pump, that might be a good route for me to explore.

Many thanks,
M/C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,138 Posts
Who's pump (for what year and model vehicle) did you use and does anyone know if a 351W timing cover would fit on a 302 (I'm assuming it will as the blocks are so similar)?

I ask these because this might help me with a problem. I have a 94 5.0L engine that I am going to refit with a carb and drop into my 69. I would like to keep the serpentine belt system, but I don't want to run an electric fuel pump. I would prefer to go to a stock mechanical pump, but the 94's cover doesn't have this provision. I still have my original 69 timing cover, but I understand that the 94's water pump won't work with it. Depending on what you used for a water pump, that might be a good route for me to explore.

Many thanks,
M/C
OK, one small problem with the SN95 serpentine system. the A/C compressor hits the shock tower. Use a Fox body serpentine if you can. Also, you are NOT going to find a timing chain cover with a fuel pump bung that will work with the SN95 design since Ford shortenend it up as much as they could to get it to fit the SN95 body. You could probably trade your entire setup for a Fox on Corral.net or sell it out right and just buy the Fox setup.
Here's a diagram I "borrowed" from another website that shows some of the different covers and which ones will work with a reverse rotation water pump. And BTW, you can get the FRPP aluminum WP at Summit Racing for $50.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
My setup is a hodge podge of parts:

Fox body pulleys
Ford Racing balancer
3G alt
Fox body PS pump
Fox body water pump
March alt and PS brackets
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,138 Posts
I built mine using an older '86 roller block, all Fox serpentine parts and 3G alt. that I had to modify the alt. bracket to get it to fit. Had everything powder coated. Notice the airpump is gone along with the mounting ears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
OK, one small problem with the SN95 serpentine system. the A/C compressor hits the shock tower. Use a Fox body serpentine if you can.
Thanks. I was aware that the A/C compressor hits the shock tower with the SN95 setup (but others may not). It happens to be one of the many "little things" I am trying to overcome. I've been trying to figure out what exactly to do with the setup. I have been seriously considering making my own brackets, since I may be replacing the P/S pump with another pump that came with my rack-and-pinion, any way.

Will the 94's A/C compressor and P/S pump fit in the Fox brackets? If they will, then that would be the easiest route -- grab the Fox brackets and timing cover/water pump for an 85. Trade/sell what I can from the 94's brackets to help cover the Fox acquisition.

I am also planning to do some more junkyard research. See what the V8 Rangers and T-Birds used. The Ranger was a pretty narrow truck (versus, say, an F-150). The T-Birds used the same intake that would go onto the 94/95 Mustangs, so there may be other similarities, though I think the engine bay may be wider.

My setup is a hodge podge of parts:

Fox body pulleys
Ford Racing balancer
3G alt
Fox body PS pump
Fox body water pump
March alt and PS brackets
Thanks for this information. Seems mostly Fox stuff. I assume the March pullies are for a Fox. Is the 3G from a 94/95?

M/C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The March brackets are not Fox specific. Not sure what year the 3G alt is from,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,138 Posts
Will the 94's A/C compressor and P/S pump fit in the Fox brackets? If they will, then that would be the easiest route -- grab the Fox brackets and timing cover/water pump for an 85. Trade/sell what I can from the 94's brackets to help cover the Fox acquisition.
P/S pump will swap, but not the A/C compressor as far as I know. I did a Rock Auto search on the compressor, and it shows different numbers, (I think the fox body was older R12 and SN95's are R134a) but I have been told the R12 compressors and R134a's are the same, so the differences are probably the mounting locations or hose routing connectors.
Rock Auto also had different numbers for the P/S pump, but the ATI pump I bought from Summit show it is the same from '90 to '95.

I am also planning to do some more junkyard research. See what the V8 Rangers and T-Birds used. The Ranger was a pretty narrow truck (versus, say, an F-150). The T-Birds used the same intake that would go onto the 94/95 Mustangs, so there may be other similarities, though I think the engine bay may be wider.
Are you looking for serpentine or intake for FI system? If serpentine, I honestly would stick to a Fox just due to interchange parts avalibilities. Even Classic Air puts out a kit for '66 Mustangs with a Fox serpentine.
If intake is the reason, go with an Explorer intake. Flows the same as a GT40 and can be found cheap online.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,447 Posts
I'd be curious to hear if you have overheating problems since you are using a reverse wp with a standard rotation cover. When I built my 331 in my 5.0, the cover I bought (didnt know it at the time) was for a standard rotation pump. I had overheating problems right off the bat with a brand new motor. Apparently the mismatched cover/pump creates swirling pockets so the water doesnt flow properly through the cooling system. Some people debunk it, and some have had a similar problem. Anxious to see what effect you see with yours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
P/S pump will swap, but not the A/C compressor as far as I know. I did a Rock Auto search on the compressor, and it shows different numbers, (I think the fox body was older R12 and SN95's are R134a) but I have been told the R12 compressors and R134a's are the same, so the differences are probably the mounting locations or hose routing connectors.
The freon is why I am very interested in keeping the 94's compressor. It did switch from R12 to R134a in 94. If I have to use a Fox compressor, I'd rather drop the A/C all together (and I live in Florida!).

Are you looking for serpentine or intake for FI system? If serpentine, I honestly would stick to a Fox just due to interchange parts avalibilities. Even Classic Air puts out a kit for '66 Mustangs with a Fox serpentine.
If intake is the reason, go with an Explorer intake. Flows the same as a GT40 and can be found cheap online.
I am just looking for a usable belt system (either serpentine or v-belt). One that allows me to keep my 94's A/C compressor and alternator plus will hopefully let me use the 94's P/S pump. I only foresee using those three accessories. I really don't care which way the water pump flows. As stated before, I have an alternative P/S pump I pulled with my rack. It should take only a simple mounting bracket to setup.

I have a complete EFI setup (on the 94's engine), plus I have a Cobra/GT40 EFI intake manifold available. I am switching to carbed, though, and that has been part of the problem.

M/C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,138 Posts
Talk to an A/C guy. I don't think it matters with the compressor what freon you are using as long as you got the R12 cleaned out all the way.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top