Vintage Mustang Forums banner

Roush 427 in 65 fastback?

6K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  hsvtoolfool 
#1 ·
Hey all--

Have a '65 fastback with a c4 that has had some minor upgrades over the years-- newer 302 crate replacement, front discs, radiator, bilsteins...
A local garage had another old stang in for work and pulled a recently installed new 427 roush out of it. The owner (originally paid 17k or something for it) was putting in a smaller stroker since his wife was driving the car now.

Long story short, the engine is in almost new condition and they're trying to sell it for 5k negotiable. My questions are two-fold -- is this a screaming good deal for an engine like this? How silly would it be to put in my 65 if it's more a fun weekend cruiser?

Also, what else would I need to consider upgrading to support this beast? Rear? Transmission? Read discs? Frame stiffeners? Fuel Cell? Is this gonna make my car louder than some Scandinavian death metal band?

Not wildly mechanical but came across this opportunity and was hoping to ask for some guidance from those in the know.

Thanks!
 
See less See more
#3 ·
You will need an upgraded trans, possible rear, depending on on what you have. Rear discs would be optional, subframe connectors will help. Itll be as loud as you want it to be. If you're not mechanically inclined then who is going to do this upgrade?
 
  • Like
Reactions: magnaton
#4 ·
Buy it. It should be a 351W stroked to 427. You will have some hood clearance issues But that can be helped with Ron Morris 1/2" drop engine mounts and a lower profile intake like the Stealth. If you are staying with the c-4 trans Jay at Broader Performance builds the best c4 trans hands down. You will need subframe connectors and I would upgrade to the 9" rearend and some good leaf springs like Maier racing or Calvert racing sell. No need for rear disc.
 
#5 ·
That’s a great deal. It’ll fit but it’ll be tight. Assuming you’ve done no upgrades you’ll need to strengthen everything from the block back to third member. Stiffen the frame quite a bit since there’ll be a lot of torsional stress. Some suggest a driveshaft loop, too. How much HP and TQ is the motor? Eventually, you may want bigger tires in the back for grip.
 
#15 ·
I think the handling difference will be negligible... The Ford 289/302 weighs in at 460 lbs. and the 351W weighs 510 lbs, so you're only talking about a 50 lb difference between the two engines (with iron heads). However, that Roush 427 probably has aluminum heads on it so that should save about 40-50 lbs over the heads on your 302 (assuming they're cast iron and not aluminum), which means the only difference you'll notice is how much you're spending on rear tires! :)
 
#8 ·
Definitely a good deal if the engine checks out. Per the Roush website their 427 is offered in different options from 480hp up to 560hp. A 351w based stroker will fit in a 65/66 mustang with swap headers and the later 66 style motor mounts. I would definitely upgrade the suspension with better leaf springs since you'll have much more power than your 302 is putting out. You can build a c4 to hold up to the amount of power that the engine has but I'd go with a 5/6 spd transmission, it'll make the car more fun imo. Other things like subframe connectors, larger sway bars and crossmembers and so on are also recommended. The engine isn't going to weigh anymore than an all cast iron 302 stock from the factory. I believe a stock all cast iron 351w was about 60lbs heavier than a stock all cast iron 302. With aluminum heads, intake and other lighter weight components you'll be at less weight than a stock all cast iron 302 from the factory. So you're not going to have to worry about any additional weight. You could upgrade to sport or race Bilstein shocks if you have the streets and you could get some roller spring perches in there or thicker springs if you really wanted to. Some people also love the under rider traction bars on the rear, I'm personally not a fan though.
 
#10 ·
I guess I'm the only one that's the suspicious sort ? Anytime I hear about "a sweetheart deal" or a "buddy" deal I wonder what the real story is. Used 347's go for that much, so do your due diligence. Is this carb. to pan with accessories, or just a longblock ?
 
#12 · (Edited)
Thanks all for the recs and the quick replies. This gives me a good sense for what additional info I need to ask about with the engine too.

Garage likely closed tomorrow but I'll reach out on Tuesday and ask for some good photos and additional details about what's included with the engine. Will circle back as soon as I have them.

Thanks again
 
#13 ·
I think the best advice is to talk to whoever you would have doing the swap and have them ask the questions and stuff for you. We can all speculate here from the comfort of our homes and tell you to buy a 5-speed and a new 9” and all this other stuff, but we’re not doing the work (nor footing the bill!). Personally, I’m always hesitant to buy a motor that I don’t have rebuilt (usually myself). I only say that because you never know how someone treated it. If he was running it up to 7500 on a daily basis, chances are that thing has a limited shelf-life. I’m with stephen, I’m a bit of a cynic and worrier.
 
#14 ·
If that's a 427 stoker built by Roush with low miles, then yes it's a screamin' deal at even $6K. A finished short block from Dart or World Products alone costs over $3K by itself. What brand heads are used (Dart?, World?, AFR?, etc). Are the heads CNC ported? What's the compression ratio? Like others have said, at the $5K package price you can tear the engine apart, check the rings and bearings, and still come out way ahead. At around 500 HP, I don't think it's as scary and unruly as you may think. The brand recognition for that engine adds significant value to any restomod. Just verify it's the real deal. They should still have receipts for provenance.
 
#17 · (Edited)
The brand recognition for that engine adds significant value to any restomod. Just verify it's the real deal. They should still have receipts for provenance.
That's absolutely right! Documentation from the build is critical. You don't want to pay this kind of money for a stroked Windsor from an Ebay engine builder/seller with "Roush" valve covers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Israel and magnaton
#23 ·
Cool so I spoke to the guy and got some details. Got one realllly bad picture but he says he's gonna speak to the original owner to ask about receipts and take more photos of serials... Sitting in a crate wrapped in plastic right now.

Engine is a 351W that's overbored. Claims its from Roush but I'm seeing cast iron and blue coloring? This doesn't look like any of the Roush pictures I've come across but don't know enough to take a stand.

Says about 5k miles on it. For 5k neg I get the long block with flywheel, balancer (it's externally balanced), and I-beam connecting rods.

Apologies in advance for terrible photo below but wanted to follow up with what I had so far. Hopefully way better photos to come in the next day or so.

Primary questions right now-- why's it blue? Should that be cast iron? Is that surface rust and is that no bueno?

Thank all for the support and guidance here

742336
 
#26 ·
Cool so I spoke to the guy and got some details. Got one realllly bad picture but he says he's gonna speak to the original owner to ask about receipts and take more photos of serials... Sitting in a crate wrapped in plastic right now.

Engine is a 351W that's overbored. Claims its from Roush but I'm seeing cast iron and blue coloring? This doesn't look like any of the Roush pictures I've come across but don't know enough to take a stand.

Says about 5k miles on it. For 5k neg I get the long block with flywheel, balancer (it's externally balanced), and I-beam connecting rods.

Apologies in advance for terrible photo below but wanted to follow up with what I had so far. Hopefully way better photos to come in the next day or so.

Primary questions right now-- why's it blue? Should that be cast iron? Is that surface rust and is that no bueno?

Thank all for the support and guidance here

View attachment 742336
I'd definitely push for receipts, serial codes, etc. You can contact Roush directly and tell them your situation (maybe not the price) but ask for any telltales that its one of theirs and not a copycat.
 
#27 ·
Okay that's a terrible photo. Without larger context, I'm just not sure what I'm looking at.

I think (and it's just a guess) I see a World Products Man O' War block. The WP blocks have that triangluar buttress with an extra hole between head studs. WP makes a cylinder head that can use those extra head studs. The intent is to hold down the head with forced induction and really high boost levels.

I'm not sure if Roush ever built engines using Dart or WP blocks. It would make more sense if Roush only uses Ford Performance blocks since they're in bed together. So if I'm right, that's sort of a red flag to me. WP blocks may actually be "better" than Ford Boss blocks, but I'd want to know who built the motor if it's not Roush. Having genuine Roush Yates D3 heads on an engine is NOT the same as a motor built by Roush.

The cylinder head (i guess?) with the "Roush" name in the casting does not seem to be in their current catalog. It may be an older product or as others have pointed out, it make be fake Chinesium copies. We just can't see enough to ID the head.

As others have suggested, I'd hold out for receipts and confirm the build by contacting whoever built the motor. If it's a really good engine builder with a good reputation, and it does have only 5K miles, then it's still a good deal.
 
#28 ·
Man o War blocks are good for a 4.125 bore, the cylinders are extended 1/2" toward the crank to provide skirt support for strockers, and the block is clearanced for a stroker crank. According to them they are the only ones that provide a 6 head stud hole per cylinder block so I would agree. Cost is around $2500 or so for the block, 4 bolt main. You know I wonder if that was an old Nascar Roush/Yates motor that someone picked up and stroked, if it is stroked.
 
#29 · (Edited)
That doesn't look anything like a D3 head:

Looks like a Roush version of the World Products head?

Which would make a Word Products block seem more logical. Are they Cast Iron or Aluminum heads ?
 
#32 ·
Finally got some info back. You folks are awesome sleuths -- World Products block with cast iron Roush heads. 4 bolt billet steel main caps, I beam rods, steel crank. Couple way better photos with serial numbers and stamps.

Any sense of what market value is?

743021


743022


743023


743024


743025


743020
 
#38 ·
Any sense of what market value is?
As other have stated, I'd only want the block, crank, rods, and pistons assuming they're all in good condition. I'd also want a deal since they're used parts and you'll need a new cam, heads, etc.. So I wouldn't gamble more than about $800 provided the crank turns freely. It's just too much of a gamble to spend more money without a complete tear-down and inspection of the block. Who knows how much abuse this thing has taken?

For you application, I'd much rather be safe and have a new crate motor from a reliable, well-regarded builder. Just pick a 300 to 400 HP package with throttle body fuel injection. You'll be in for less than $7K and save money and headaches in the long run.

Good catch on the heads there @stephen_wilson! Those are so old I didn't recognize them. I lost all interest in cast iron heads too long ago to care.
 
#34 ·
Bare block is 2800 so putting it together adds up but those heads I think are 1500 new but there are way better heads out there now a days. I think those heads are choking that 427. So personally I would just want the short block. Just my opinion though. I think they are trying to get what its is worth in todays market. So I guess is it what you want and would work for you, budget and goal?


.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MUSTANG65FBK
#35 ·
If your interested it looks like you have a shortblock. pull some bearing caps and check some clearances, turn it over and check the bores, pull the heads and get some afrs. The one thing to think about is you have a bare motor so unless you already have timing gears, chain, cover, water pump, intake, carb, pulleys, oil pan and all that I would start comparing costs to a new crate engine
 
#36 ·
If I were going in that direction, I would explore it, as the potential is there and knowing what I went through to get almost 400 RWHP from a 331 block. 5K, ? not a bad number, but, as always ....Do your "Due Diligence"!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top