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I cant believe how many people try to sell there cars and miss lead the buyers. I just asked this guy on ebay to send me some pics of the interior of his fastback, and he just keeps making up excuses why he cant or wont take them. He finally told me to come look at it person if I wanted to see it.
This is like the 10th or so person that has been like this. Just hope no one buys one of these and gets screwed!!
 

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i was talking to some people recently. we were talking bout the price of old cars. a couple a these people buy,restore, and sell various collector cars. they have ben to barris-jackson , and have had a few on ebay. if they dont get the bid up where they want it they will answer the next higher bid. if they are the high bidder they get their car back. i was told they take family/friends to jack up the bid. same with ebay. a few family members have ebay acounts and jack the bid up. if it dont sell they wait a little bit and relist with a message that the winner didnt pay or have a family member/relative list it. i thought this might be going on but it has ben verified by these people i know. i only talk to them when i need a car part that i cant find here. dont ask who they are cause i aint telling, they aint breaking the law.
 

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i was talking to some people recently. we were talking bout the price of old cars. a couple a these people buy,restore, and sell various collector cars. they have ben to barris-jackson , and have had a few on ebay. if they dont get the bid up where they want it they will answer the next higher bid. if they are the high bidder they get their car back. i was told they take family/friends to jack up the bid. same with ebay. a few family members have ebay acounts and jack the bid up. if it dont sell they wait a little bit and relist with a message that the winner didnt pay or have a family member/relative list it. i thought this might be going on but it has ben verified by these people i know. i only talk to them when i need a car part that i cant find here. dont ask who they are cause i aint telling, they aint breaking the law.
Thats a given. That stuff has been going on for ever. My gripe is that they dont want to show you what their cars REALLY look like. Or they say that it is someone elses car. I would never buy a car on ebay with out getting all the info I wanted, and if they are not willing to give me what im asking for, they can shove it for all I care. It seems that they are out to screw someone. If they were honest, why not take the pics im askin for???:shrug:
 

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alot of people are misleading.. when I was looking to buy mustangs, I actually bought 3 before I found one that I actually bought. The guys are always trying to avoid questions.. I ask them to send pics of the VIN numbers (engine bay and door tag) and the title pic. and they always try to have an excuse.. "well I'l see if I can get around to them, but I have the title right here" stuff like that..
its like cmon.... obviously the reason I am asking about it, is because I care about it, and I wanna see.. and they want you to come out there to look at it?
do they want you to spend money and time just to find out that its not how you want? some people..... but yeah. after awhile, I finally found an honest person, that actually sent pics and answered all the questions. That is the one I bought
 

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not to mention the 10 mustangs I almost bought.
After while I realized that when they avoid questions and taking photos, its because half the time to them, its not a big deal, so they don't think its that important to answer truthfully.
 

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In most locations they are breaking the law. It's called fraud.
its not fraud because the cars they restore are top notch and are what they say they are. if bought one it would be absolutley perfect and thats why they want BIG money for them. they should just have minimum bids. fraud is advertising a car to be something its not. what they are doing is tyring to drive the price of cars through the roof like a lot of others are doing. IF i couldnt do the work on a car myself and was rich i'd buy one of theirs. this same thing happened in the housing market when people were outbidding each other for houses here in california. i was asked to turn in a bid to help jack the price of a house up. i declined. it was a nice house. people FREELY paid $900,000.00 for a house here that would sell for $200,00.00 in most other states. as long as people are willing to pay big dollars for old cars this type of bidding will continue. btw even IF a law was passed that pervented relatives/friends from bidding on stuff to jack the price up at auctions and ebay how do you prove they commited a crime ? if my dad took a car to auction and i bid and bid cause i wanted it but it got higher then i could afford i could go to jail. if ebay had ben around in 1992 my dad would have put his 69 B2 on it. the only way to stop people from using friends/relatives to jack up the price is dont pay those prices. it does cost a lot to do a perfecto restoration but no way would i pay $150,000 for a car that the owner has $50,000.00 in. i would pay $60,000. but the guys with $50,000.00 in the car want to turn a 100%+ profit. nothing illegal just plain old greed.
 

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I cant believe how many people try to sell there cars and miss lead the buyers. I just asked this guy on ebay to send me some pics of the interior of his fastback, and he just keeps making up excuses why he cant or wont take them. He finally told me to come look at it person if I wanted to see it.
This is like the 10th or so person that has been like this. Just hope no one buys one of these and gets screwed!!
On the sellers defense answering the same question over and over and over with no results gets old real quick especially online. Really interested buyers come and look. Smart buyers dont base a purchase off photograghs anyways. Believe me when it comes to classics people ask alooooot of questions 20 different ways.
 

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i was talking to some people recently. we were talking bout the price of old cars. a couple a these people buy,restore, and sell various collector cars. they have ben to barris-jackson , and have had a few on ebay. if they dont get the bid up where they want it they will answer the next higher bid. if they are the high bidder they get their car back. i was told they take family/friends to jack up the bid. same with ebay. a few family members have ebay acounts and jack the bid up. if it dont sell they wait a little bit and relist with a message that the winner didnt pay or have a family member/relative list it. i thought this might be going on but it has ben verified by these people i know. i only talk to them when i need a car part that i cant find here. dont ask who they are cause i aint telling, they aint breaking the law.
Ebay electronically tracks this process you are refering to. Its also known as 'shill bidding'. If IP adresses or accts enter into the picture regularly then Ebay deals with it. Thet have a vested interest to do so. In any event - if it were to happen its irrelevant - bid what you think its worth - if you get outbid then move on. I have been exclusively buying my own vehicles here for over a decade with no problems - you just need to know the process as to prevent being taken advantage of.
 

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On the sellers defense answering the same question over and over and over with no results gets old real quick especially online. Really interested buyers come and look. Smart buyers dont base a purchase off photograghs anyways. Believe me when it comes to classics people ask alooooot of questions 20 different ways.

not if you have to buy a plane tickets just to look at it. I'm not spending a grand to find out that the VIN numbers don't match and its really a T code.
It would be much easier for the seller just to send pics and correct info instead of avoiding the question.
 

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not if you have to buy a plane tickets just to look at it. I'm not spending a grand to find out that the VIN numbers don't match and its really a T code.
It would be much easier for the seller just to send pics and correct info instead of avoiding the question.
right on :thumbsup:
 

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not if you have to buy a plane tickets just to look at it. I'm not spending a grand to find out that the VIN numbers don't match and its really a T code.
It would be much easier for the seller just to send pics and correct info instead of avoiding the question.
FYI most sellers will pick up the tab on the flight and even pick you up if you end up buying the car. But that generally on the nicer cars. The Tcode and Vin issues dont require photos. That shpuld be in the description. My 2 cents anyway, to each their own. good luck and happy hunting!

Ivan
 

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Discussion Starter #13
On the sellers defense answering the same question over and over and over with no results gets old real quick especially online. Really interested buyers come and look. Smart buyers dont base a purchase off photograghs anyways. Believe me when it comes to classics people ask alooooot of questions 20 different ways.
On the buyers defense, Im not going to fly half way across the country to look at a car, that i dont even know what it is... just show me the dam pics and if they are what I want them to be, ill fly my happy *** out there and buy it!
Lol
 

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its not fraud because the cars they restore are top notch and are what they say they are. if bought one it would be absolutley perfect and thats why they want BIG money for them. they should just have minimum bids. fraud is advertising a car to be something its not. what they are doing is tyring to drive the price of cars through the roof like a lot of others are doing. IF i couldnt do the work on a car myself and was rich i'd buy one of theirs. this same thing happened in the housing market when people were outbidding each other for houses here in california. i was asked to turn in a bid to help jack the price of a house up. i declined. it was a nice house. people FREELY paid $900,000.00 for a house here that would sell for $200,00.00 in most other states. as long as people are willing to pay big dollars for old cars this type of bidding will continue. btw even IF a law was passed that pervented relatives/friends from bidding on stuff to jack the price up at auctions and ebay how do you prove they commited a crime ? if my dad took a car to auction and i bid and bid cause i wanted it but it got higher then i could afford i could go to jail. if ebay had ben around in 1992 my dad would have put his 69 B2 on it. the only way to stop people from using friends/relatives to jack up the price is dont pay those prices. it does cost a lot to do a perfecto restoration but no way would i pay $150,000 for a car that the owner has $50,000.00 in. i would pay $60,000. but the guys with $50,000.00 in the car want to turn a 100%+ profit. nothing illegal just plain old greed.
Knowingly misrepresenting a vehicles condition is fraud. A seller placing a bid on their own auction with the intent to falsely inflate the price IS fraud. Whether they do it personally or have someone else act in their behalf. Doing it just because they do good work and deserve a higher price is hardly an excuse. That's what reserves are for. It is no less illegal just because it's hard to prove.
 

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Knowingly misrepresenting a vehicles condition is fraud. A seller placing a bid on their own auction with the intent to falsely inflate the price IS fraud. Whether they do it personally or have someone else act in their behalf. Doing it just because they do good work and deserve a higher price is hardly an excuse. That's what reserves are for. It is no less illegal just because it's hard to prove.
IT IS NOT FRAUD !!! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THE CAR IF YOU DONT LIKE THE PRICE !!! ITS NOT FRAUD ! How can jacking the price up be fraud ? the reason gasoline is over $4 a gallon is because speculators are doing the same thing and its legal. speculators can drive a barrell of oil up to $200.00 a barrell and ITS LEGAL. speculators can use friends and family members to drive the price of oil up. you dont have to buy gas. no one has to buy these old cars. owning old cars is not a right. if you dont know what to pay for an old mustang then you should get help. too many people are willing to pay big bucks so they can have a "CLASSIC CAR". a guy down the street paid $12,000.00 for a rusted out 69 mach 1 with a wore out 351w. the car is rusted bad BUT he wanted it bad and has a heap of rusted junk. he doesnt know anything about cars. should it be illegal for the po to sell the car for $12,000.00 ? he bought it from an add not auction but he got ripped off. the car still had what was left of the original paint. all the rustr could be seen,engine smoked bad. he thought a little sanding and paint would fix rusted out floors,shock towers , rear frame rails, etc. after talking to him he said he was told it needed restoring. if people helping a friend jack the price up at auction were to be illegal then selling this junk 69 would be illegal. if i advertise my 65 fb thats in pieces right now for $20,000 and a friend comes over while a prospective buyer is looking at it and says he will give me $25,000 and the prospective buyer then offer $26,000 and the friend leaves and the guy pays the $26,000 how is that fraud ? the guy doesnt have to buy the car. the guy that bought the 69 for $12,000 got screwd BUT he willingly bought it, no one held a gun to his head. i dont like the fact that people who know nothing about cars just gotta have an old car and then without getting help from a site like this on the web pay big money for junk. same with people who go to barrett-jackson with a wad of money and pay 3 million for a plymouth GTX !!! yes a guy did that some years ago !!! they kept bidding up the price till it got to 3 mil!!! the guy didnt have to buy the GTX. he was on the news and admitted he was crazy to pay that BUT he wanted it. he said he slways wanted a GTX !!! if it were fraud people would have gone to jail. the car was as advertsed>no fraud. if i took a car to auction and had friends keep upping the bid it aint fraud cause YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT ! my landlord has a 69 B302 thats a real junker in bad nedd of restoring. he said he would sell it. i took fotos and sent them to several people that restore old mustangs. i want the car real bad. they told me what they thought the car is worth as is. my landlord has also ben asking his friends and others what the car is worth and his friends are telling him $20,000 and i along with the people i have talked to say $10,000 tops. i really want it ! if he says $20,000 and i over pay by $10,000 cause his friends convinced him not to go below $20,000 is that fraud. he has not missrepresentd that car. i could get an immaculately restored 69B for $50.000. i could end up with $100,000.00 in this junker. does that mean would be illegal for his friends to jack the price up ? if he took the car to auction and his freinds went they would bid to jack the price up. i dont NEED it. it not a NEED but i really want it. if i over pay for the car how is it fraud ? heres a foto of the actual boss 302. right now he and his friends say $20,000. the people i talked to say 8-10K. if i buy it for 20K where does the fraud come in ? NOW if "HE" said the car is in exelent condition, never ben wrecked, never had any rust, the engine has 50 miles on it since rebuild , has a traclok rear, and i buy the car only to find out the frame is rusted out, it was in a major wreck and the frame is tweeked, the engine burn oil, has a sinlge leg rear end that would be fraud and thats illegal. if you could go to jail for having people jack up the price of a product a good chunk of WALL STREET would be in jail and speculators are ripping us off by jacking up the price of oil. same with short selling but it aint illegal. heres a foto of the 69 B302 i'm in price negotiations with. i really want it but i aint gonna pay 20K for it !!! btw i play drums and a few years ago bought some additional TAMA drums to match my other 2 sets. i paid more for those drums i bought off ebay than they cost new in 1988. was fraud committed on the by the seller ? NO. i willingly bought them. there was one instance where i didnt buy a bass drum cause the price went higher then what i was willing to pay. eventually one for a lower price came along and i bought it. that particular drum hasnt ben made since 1988.
 

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^ I think what candyapplered was trying to say is. its fraud if they guy is doing this.. for example "1967 mustang fastback GT, has excellent original paint, all original body, no replacement fenders etc.. no rust. (so you bid on it, thinking its a great car, even willing to pay a little extra) BAM you get there and see evidence of being painted at least 3 times, rusted trunk and floor pans, not even a real GT, replaced quarters..." but from the pics and what the guy said, it seemed to be what he said..

That seems like fraud to me, if its not "technically" fraud, then that just wrong..
sure you could be willingly paying for it, but then you could be deceived, being told its something that it's not.
its just not right.
 

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^ I think what candyapplered was trying to say is. its fraud if they guy is doing this.. for example "1967 mustang fastback GT, has excellent original paint, all original body, no replacement fenders etc.. no rust. (so you bid on it, thinking its a great car, even willing to pay a little extra) BAM you get there and see evidence of being painted at least 3 times, rusted trunk and floor pans, not even a real GT, replaced quarters..." but from the pics and what the guy said, it seemed to be what he said..

That seems like fraud to me, if its not "technically" fraud, then that just wrong..
sure you could be willingly paying for it, but then you could be deceived, being told its something that it's not.
its just not right.
yes this would be fraud. BUT if you KNEW the car was NOT what the guy said it is and the price kept going up and you bought it anyway you cant say you got ripped off. only if you didnt know and you bought could you say fraud. i have bought a few things that wenrt what the seller said they were BUT i already knew that and i still wanted the items beacuse i had use for them. it really pays to have a max price that you would pay for a car or item and then know what to look for or seek help from someone who does. lotta people would like and old car but have no clue as to what to look for or who to take it to for repair. some people want old cars cause they think they can flip it and make money but still dont know anything about them. my landlord might say he wants 50K for that ragged boss 302 in the foto and if that were to be the case he will continue to own it.
 

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Thanks for the assist saligli, but that's not at all what I meant. I'm not talking about false descriptions. I'm talking about placing bids on your own auction to inflate the selling price.

supershifter2, buying commodities has absolutely nothing in common with shill bidding. Buying stocks is also a completely different animal. Every one of your counter points is like off in left field. They have nothing to do with shill bidding. Since you don't understand the point I'll just leave you with this question. If driving the price of your own auction up by placing false bids is so legal and ethical why don't people use their real name when doing it...... ?
 

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Thanks for the assist saligli, but that's not at all what I meant. I'm not talking about false descriptions. I'm talking about placing bids on your own auction to inflate the selling price.
its not illegal to bid on your own auction. since you think it is illegal i say post the statute here so we can read it for ourselves.
 

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supershifter2, buying commodities has absolutely nothing in common with shill bidding. Buying stocks is also a completely different animal. Every one of your counter points is like off in left field. They have nothing to do with shill bidding.
well i beg to differ since i have stock in 20 companies. a friend of mine was a stock broker when he retired.
 
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