[Caper50]

Just wondering if anyone can comment on the Scott Drake Race Monte Carlo bars. They come in satin black or stainless and are adjustable with rod bearings at each end.

Stainless Race Monte Carlo Bar

Satin Black Race Monte Carlo Bar

 

[2nd 66]

if they used a sold rod end I'd be OK with that . but a HEIM joint will be able to move. Plus the one pictured is curved and that is a whole nuther controversy https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/toss-that-curved-monte-carlo-bar.821162/
https://www.vintage-mustang.com/search/33180/?q=curved+or+straight&o=relevance

 

[MrFlash]

Looks cool but I don’t see how it’s any better than any other bar.
And some will say that straight is better than curved especially if you plan to “race” it.

If your distributor and air cleaner leave room for a straight bar then get a straight bar.
If it’s just for “looks” then get whichever shiny bar you like.

 

[patrickstapler]

I would agree they have two negatives from a structural member standpoint...at least in my mind. The heim joints (of any kind) when trying to prevent the shock towers from reacting to forces pushing up and in and as mentioned, the curve. About the only benefit to can see is the bar could be pinned in place with double shear quick release pins for quick removal. However, I haven’t encountered a reason yet to need to remove my regular old bolt in straight quickly at any track event.

let the games begin...?

 

[66coupe289]

The heim joint is not a big deal as the fixed end does not provide that much of a moment connection. The Monte Carlo bar really works in tension. As a car corners the top of the outside fender apron wants to push out, the Monte Carlo bar helps to stiffen the front end by transferring some of that load to the opposite fender apron. It also works to complete the triangle with the export brace. Much like a truss, the end connections are designed to resist shear, NOT moments.

I fabricated a very similar setup over a decade ago using the end brackets from a standard MC bar and a drag link and rod ends from Speedway. The benefit is that it can be removed and installed in seconds vs the PITA it is to remove the bolts of a standard bar. I would think the Scott Drake would have similar benefits.

 

[swooshdave]

I would agree they have two negatives from a structural member standpoint...at least in my mind. The heim joints (of any kind) when trying to prevent the shock towers from reacting to forces pushing up and in and as mentioned, the curve. About the only benefit to can see is the bar could be pinned in place with double shear quick release pins for quick removal. However, I haven’t encountered a reason yet to need to remove my regular old bolt in straight quickly at any track event.

let the games begin...?

I suspect the Heim joints don't actually move at all. Isn't all the force in compression? I think the Heim joints are there for looks and to justify the $100 price tag for a piece of tube steel.

 

[Dan Babb]

When I measured my car, it was a bit out of spec and I didn't want to fight to get a solid bar installed. I also expected to need the curved bar to fit the Oval air filter. I wound up going with a stack EFI setup, so not sure I need the curved bar, but I'm keeping it.

So I have the curved bar you have linked and it made my install easier. I'm not on the road yet though, so I can't give you a before & after comparison. I think a curved bar with a heim joint is better than no bar at all.

If your measures at spec, I'd get one without the hiem joints though. Why allow for the possibility of movement if you don't need them.

 

[Caper50]

No intentions to race, was just looking for something that's a bit more rugged than the standard bar. I bought one of the regular curved bars and was not very impressed, it's pretty light duty and wouldn't fit anyway. I liked this one because it's adjustable and a bit heavier. I get what you are saying re straight vs curved, not looking to resurrect that. I appreciate the opinions. Might have to re-visit my plan at making my own, straight bar ; >)

 

[66coupe289]

Parts used to fabricate mine were similar to:

Bar

End (note: order one RH thread and one LH thread)

 

[silverblueBP]

“They feature a .975" diameter tube and are equiped with heim joints for smoother operation.”

Funniest thing on the web today. Yeah, you want the opposing sides of the car to be able to flex and move.

Who writes this shart?

It’s strictly bling.


Mark

 

[patrickstapler]

IMO, ZRay’s design that he adapted for his Weber setup is the absolute best I have seen. It moved the bar slightly forward and then added two triangulation bars back to the sides. This allowed more room for distributor and air cleaner clearance.

 

[66coupe289]

“They feature a .975" diameter tube and are equiped with heim joints for smoother operation.”

Funniest thing on the web today. Yeah, you want the opposing sides of the car to be able to flex and move.

Who writes this shart?

It’s strictly bling.


Mark

The fixed ends of a standard MC bar do not prevent the car from flexing to any significant degree. It acts like a bar in a truss transmitting tensile and compressive forces, that is it. Replacing the ends with a hinge joint makes no difference. Granted, the only "smoother operation" offered by the bar in question relates to install/removal. Having hinged connections is no different than other products on the market such as Total Control Products Braces . Why did Shelby/Ford use solid connections? Because they were cheap.

 

[wicked93gs]

If you are going to get an aftermarket bar....don't play around with floppy heim joints and the like:

Get a one-piece unit like Mike Maier sells...maximize the rigidity and triangulation. Would you put Heim joints on your engine crossmember? of course not...so why would you put them on your Monte Carlo bar?

 

[66coupe289]

^^^ Yet Maier Racing uses pinned joints on their frame stiffening Z bar system: https://www.maierracing.com/product/z-brace/

That Maier Racing unit pictured works by trangulation, not rigidity. The export brace portion, alone, is far less rigid than the stamped steel export brace that Shelby used. Cut one of those Maier bars free from the MC bar portion and you could hold the end near the shock tower and bend it back and forth at the fire wall connection. The Maier unit probably removes some weight...from one's car and wallet.

 

[1ofAMillion+]

I bought one of the regular curved bars and was not very impressed, it's pretty light duty and wouldn't fit anyway. I liked this one because it's adjustable and a bit heavier.

This is why i don't agree with the adjustable ones. How do you know it wasn't your car that was off kilter? Maybe you needed to tweak your car back into "square."
If its adjustable how do you know when its tight enough or too tight putting undue stress on something?

 

[Turnall]

"works by trangulation,"

When it comes to Monte Carlo bar threads I think you left the S off of strangulation.

Allen

 

[silverblueBP]

The fixed ends of a standard MC bar do not prevent the car from flexing to any significant degree. It acts like a bar in a truss transmitting tensile and compressive forces, that is it. Replacing the ends with a hinge joint makes no difference. Granted, the only "smoother operation" offered by the bar in question relates to install/removal. Having hinged connections is no different than other products on the market such as Total Control Products Braces . Why did Shelby/Ford use solid connections? Because they were cheap.

Well crud, had I known welded joints aren’t more rigid than heim joints, I would’ve added them to my roll cage instead of welding everything.


Mark

 

[wicked93gs]

^^^ Yet Maier Racing uses pinned joints on their frame stiffening Z bar system: https://www.maierracing.com/product/z-brace/

That Maier Racing unit pictured works by trangulation, not rigidity. The export brace portion, alone, is far less rigid than the stamped steel export brace that Shelby used. Cut one of those Maier bars free from the MC bar portion and you could hold the end near the shock tower and bend it back and forth at the fire wall connection. The Maier unit probably removes some weight...from one's car and wallet.

And here I was under the impression DOM tubing was more rigid than stamped steel. You are correct though...that brace would benefit from a 2nd tube on each side in the export brace portion like this one:

Its unfortunate that no one sells one that combines the two....probably best off fabricating your own if you don't want compromises.

 

[22GT]

I suspect the Heim joints don't actually move at all. Isn't all the force in compression? I think the Heim joints are there for looks and to justify the $100 price tag for a piece of tube steel.

And I suspect you are right.

 

[kenash]

No intentions to race, was just looking for something that's a bit more rugged than the standard bar. I bought one of the regular curved bars and was not very impressed, it's pretty light duty and wouldn't fit anyway. I liked this one because it's adjustable and a bit heavier. I get what you are saying re straight vs curved, not looking to resurrect that. I appreciate the opinions. Might have to re-visit my plan at making my own, straight bar ; >)

When you state "wouldn't fit anyway.", this is an indication, your front end has problems not the bar. That is, the bar is a quality product. It's well known, this old junk we own has front end issues. So, maybe your shock towers are collapsing?