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Discussion Starter #1
When I came home from work tonight my neighbor told me that two individuals tried to steal my mustang. One was in the car messing with the steering column when he chased them off. This was at 4:30 - 5 in the afternoon, broad daylight, with my car parked right out in front of 15 apartment units. The thief wannabes drove up in a mid-80s POS honda 4 door, parked next to the stang and somehow or another got inside. They did not even know what to do with the car once inside. They took some type of pry tool and pried at the turn indicator lever opening (duh?) and then started on the metal collar that is right behind the cover part where the ignition switch is. So stupid. They jammed it where it would not rotate, which on my car means that if it is the wrong position the ignition won't start - something to do with the neutral safety switch. IN any event, I had a gas shut off, the juice from the battery shut off, the ignitioin computer was in antitheft mode, and the power steering is hot. Assuming they could get the car started, their puny little skinniy arms no doubt would be too weak to turn the wheel. Spent the last two hours taking down license plates of every 4 door mid-80s honda/accord/mazda within 2 blocks of my apartment. The car cannot be seen from the street so it has to be someone that is familiar with my apartment complex.

If ever catch someone in the act, I know how to legally *uck them up physically. I think that if the word on the street is that you are going to be in pain if you steal cars from our block, the scum will drift elsewhere. I have my 65 FB in the garage, since a nieghbor complained to the cops when I had it on the street. Even though tagged and registered, I haven't been driving it every 72 hours so I got the old valentine reading "tow". Had to get it inside. Geeze. I am concerned that they will come back cause they are so stupid. I now have a sign on the car saying the car has multiple anti-theft systems, plus lo-jak. I also have the club on the wheel and a car cover with a cable lock. I am thinking of fabricating two 10 foot steel bars - one with short arms at each end and the other with receptors for the arms. I could stick the arms through the openings in the Torque Thrust Ds and then lock the other bar parallel to it. No way the car could be driven with the wheel bolted together in that fashion. Now that I am a "welder" I can do crazy stuff like that.

kInd of a helpless feeling thinking that they will be back when I am at work tomorrow. Guess I'll have to get a siren. I am thinking about a mechanical pressure switch linked to a marine air horn. When someone sits on the driver's seat their wieght would trigger the air horn. These things are so loud they can be heard about a mile away in fog. In an enclosed car the noise would make their ears ring.

Bottom line - guess I have to move to a safer location. Tough to do here in Sacramento. :(
 

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how do you "legally *uck them up"????????????? id really like to know that b/c then i could do something about all the punks around here.
 

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Yes, tell us more about this legal way to hurt people...
 

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how do you "legally *uck them up"????????????
in the military, they taught us a thousand different ways to *uck someone up WITHOUT leaving a mark. Of course, you could always use the old "standby" - IF you find out who it is, plant some drugs in their car and call the narc's....

randy
 

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Not a bad idea, my luck would be if I found some place to buy the drugs to plant I would be the one to get caught :)
 

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Reading about these things always makes me glad that I live out in the country. Of course, even we are not immune from the thieves because there have been a few daytime thefts on our road. One things for sure, though. If my Mustang goes down the road without me behind the wheel, one of the neighbors will notice. :)

BTW, we have acres of free parking if anyone needs to store a Mustang here. Just be sure to leave the keys! :D
 

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man if somebody tried to steal my car id tie them to the axle and drive away haha ohhh legal?? whats that??
 
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When I was in HS, I had a very nice 1960 Ghia. I also, unfortunately, had some "friends" who liked to key it. My father rigged some kind of electric grounding junk to it - so that when I flipped a toggle switch it would shock people that touched it (would only give off one shock though).

Dunno how he it worked, but it kept the final paint job on it key-free through the end of my senior year.
 

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I feel your pain. I don't have quite as many theft deterrant devices but I make sure that I take the distributor rotor out even if I'll only be gone for 5 minutes. Those cars are just too darn easy to hotwire. Anyway a few months ago I actually caught someone in the act outside the local Ikea in broad daylight with witnesses. I made a post about it if some remember. Man if I could have caught that jerk he wouldn't be breathing as easy for awhile. Maybe out of a tube or something. It's sad that retards like that can't just get their own classic if they want it so bad. Sad fact is they probably don't even want it. They think they're worth way more than they are. I've heard people at "ricer" shows talking and they seriously think our cars are worth more than twice what they really are. Hey I bet that civic that's down the street from me is worth about 50k. I'm going to go try and steal it tonight!
 

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Ken, that bites! What is this the 3rd time? I know that government work sucks right now, but I'm VERY happy out here in Roseville. You should think about moving out this way. The area you're in is too close to "trashville". The commute would bite, but at least the car would be safer while you were doing it.

BTW, I need those brackets for the '69 rear panel ... will call you tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The key to legally hurt someone is to always keep yourself from being the aggressor. This means that you cannot use a degree of force that is in excess of that employed against you. If you have a person attacking you with fists, you cannot use a rock or bat; if you have 5 people attacking you with fists, you still can only retailiate with your fists (in most jurisdictions). The one who accelerates the violence loses the privilege of "self defense" and become the agressor. Thus, the initiatior of the violence is assumed to be the aggressor, but if the responder initiates another level of violence, the responder becomes the intiator - see how it works?

Another principal is that you cannot use deadly force to apprehend someone who is committing a misdemeanor. Someone vandalizing your car is committing a misdemeanor. Although someone stealing your car might be committing grand theft auto, a felony, do you want to risk incarceration on the idea that in your jurisdiction it is a felony? Someplaces say you cannot use deadly fforce to defend against, or to apprehend, when it is a non-lethal felony. Thus, you should not use deadly force to protect your car. ON he other hand, if someone steals your car and is trying to run you over - that is attempted vehiclular manslaughter and you might be priviledged in your jurisdiction to use deadly force to stop the car, if you can't simply run away. (seems like most states impose a duty to retreat before allowing the privilege of using deadly force.)

Another principal is that reasonable force can be used to apprehend or defend, but never is permissible for revenge. Thus, if someone comes at you with a knife, you show them your gun and they run away, beak off the attack, you cannot use deadly force to apprehend them - under the circumstances, you are not in fear of life or serious injury, so it would be classified as revenge and not self defense, or unreasonable force in terms of apprehending the perpatrator of the now-abandoned assualt.

ok, if someone tries to steal my car I can use reasonable, but not deadly, force to affect a citizen's arrest. Chasing a tackling a person would be reasonable force. Using wire ties or a belt to secure the guys hands would be reasonable force. Sitting on his back, with his face in the ground would be a reasonable means of subduing the person while awaiting arrival of authorities. See, all of these actions essentially look passive. You are doing the least amount of physical activity necessary to obtain and maintain control of the person's body, until authorities arrive. You are showing restraint, reasonableness, that you are in control of yourself.

Ok, here is a scenario - you chase the guy down and tackle him in such a way that he flies face down into the street. You have just turned his face into an asphault sandwich. As you are subduing him, your entire body weight might find itself on the back of his head as you are attempting to regain your balance. There you are, knee or foot on the back of his head , as his face is in the asphault, while you, with a twisting motion are attempting to get your body weight off of the poor little misguided tyke - after all , you don't want to hurt him, just subdue and control him. Have you ever seen someone who has been in a motorcycle accident - how the skin is totallly skinned up? By now this guys face should look something like that. Perhaps his nose got broken in the intial fall. Hey, you didn't do that. You didn't hit him. Your fist never connected with his face - he just fell down while running at a great speed. This is the principal - it's like judo - use your surroundings as your weapon - you both crash into a brick wall, uknfortunately for him, he hit first, face first. It's dark, its confusing out, he is rolling around and twisting on the ground, you didn't see his hand there when you put your foot down to get up off the ground. Whoops, what's that? a dislocated finger?

Never say anything personal - like Hey punk, how'd that taste? The thing that got Bernard Goetz in the New York Subway Shootings was probably the statement he made - he looked over one of his victims and said, you don't look so bad and put another bullet into him. That was too much for a jury to close an eye to. It made it clear it was vigilanteism. Don't say anything like that. It's just, hey, I'm a citizen doing my duty to help out the authorities. Stay still and nothing is going to happen.

Now if your emotions run away from you, that is no doubt becuase you thought you saw a metal object in the guys hands. You thought it might have been a knife or gun and you were in fear of your life. Instinct took over and you lashed out to protect yourself. The metallic object in the hand can fool an untrained eye. So, if you use unreasonable force to capture a car thief, it possibly could become reasonable force if you were protecting yourself from a potential killer. After all, the light was bad and you thought you saw a metalllic object in his hand. This is an argument that may or may not be believed, depending on how sympathetic the cops are. STill, it is not an argument I would like to make in court. However, it is better than nothing. I think it is what cops say when they shoot an unarmed man.

I think the skinned up face is probably the best. It hurts like the dickens, is ugly, oozes and bleeds for a while, and may leave scars to the point the guy will be so ugly he'll never get any from a sober female the rest of his life.

This is what I mean by legally "**ucking someone up" This is just my opinion and I have not actually done it so as to be tested in it. If you think this approach is something you might want to try, if put to the test, I suggest you talk first to your friendly family lawyer, or a legal aid clinic lawyer, or just use a local lawyer referral service to get a cheap 30 minute consult. Laws are different from state-to-state and juries are radically different from county to county.

That said, tonight I'll probably have the 12 guage loaded and at my side, together with the phone and a big flashlight while I sleep by the front door tonight. I forgot to bring in the wireties from the garage. I'll get some "wrist sized" wireties soon and keep them in my emergency response kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
John, I am carrying the brackets around in the Mercedes. You are more than welcome to come out any time and pick them up. I also have a door lock/ignition switch combination with keys if you need those. Yeah, I am looking at moving. Soon I will aplpy for a job in Sonoma County and also another one in Santa Cruz. I could use about an acre of land with a 6-car garage.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am fortunate in that most of my neighbors like the car and have seen me working ungoshly amounts of hours on it. Thus, they kind of keep a look out for it, as demonstrated by my neighbor who chased them off. What is funny is that the would be thief was in such haste that when he slid out of my car and into his get away car, his watch slid off his skinny wrist and landed on the ground. My neighbor kept it as a suivineer. Turns out it retails for just under $700 bucks! hahah. poetic justice. No doubt it was stolen, but it still has to hurt the guy a little bit to lose it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've actually seen ads on the internet for those devices. They are capacitor discharge systems that take the cars voltage and then ramp it out to whatever degree you select by your purchase. When someone touches say the steering wheel or dash, they get a very powerful shock. One level is "lethal" and is only sold under a license of some kind. I suppose you could hook it to a door handle, but I am sure in this society someone would claim that they weren't trying to steal the car, just lost their balance and fell into it. How they are crippled and deserve a million bucks from the shock. So, I'd keep it inside the car, if the shock level were really powerful. I like the idea you mention though. Maybe something from the batter to the door handle . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Aint that the truth. Have to deal with a middleman to buy and plant, with you just being a voice on the phone. Now if this were Detroit, for two rocks of crack I could get someone put into the hospital. Just a short walk down 8 mile around midnight would hook me up with someone who could hook me up with someone . . . Better yet, plant the word that the dude was narcin to the cops. That would get em really messed up. I knew of someone who got shot 9 times based on the rumor she was turning in dealers to the cops in Detroit. She was not ratting out the dealer that had her shot, but she was ratting out dealers that sold at elementary schools. Detroit ain't that all peaceful in spots. Emiems movie "*8-mile" was highly accurate in terms of depicting Detroit street life. The film locations were dead on authentic as I have driven by, or on, many of those locations. I've even been in the trailer park that was used for filming.
 

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yeah don't buy drugs to plant from an undercover cop

"Honest officer, I was buying these drugs to plant on someone. I wasn't going to use the drugs myself I swear" :p
 

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Ken, sorry to hear about the loss.

It is common for thieves on many newer cars to beak/peel open the steering column cover and move a rod enabling the ignition to turn on. This does not take into account other anti-theft devices however.

I've known neighbors to play the 72-hour game. The law states the veh cannot be on one place for more than 72 hours...so just leave the 65 inside one day out of 4 and you should be ok.

Whay you also may want to explore is renting an unused garage from another person at the complex. There must be some little old lady without a car or a guy with an old, beater Geo who does not care if it's garaged.
 

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Since i don't have any electronic devices on my car that can be damaged, my dad built a heavy duty static electricity generator. I hooked it up in the trunk, ran a chain out under the car that I can uncoil when I park and I wired it to the trunk button on my remote. Only way they are going to touch my car is with some heavy duty rubber gloves. It will jump a spark about a 1/2 inch and doesn't damage the paint. It's not hooked up anymore, I got tired of forgetting to turn it off ::

If I ever start leaving my car out at night though, you can bet its going to be on.
 
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