Vintage Mustang Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part JUNE's Ride of the Month Challenge!
  • May's Ride of the Month contest ended with a tie! Go to this thread to vote on the winner! VOTE HERE
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I have a 67 Coupe. It is fitted with all original stuff as far as accelerator/kickdown goes besides a TCP throttle linkage. It is a C4 and on the accelerator end sits a Holley Street Avenger/Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap atop my 289. All of the "original" stuff though I bought new from NPD, so I suppose there's the possibility of them shipping me the wrong part.

Anyway, the problem is, first off, that the accelerator rod at the tranny, when I pull it to just before wide-open throttle, is too far away from the kickdown cable, there aren't enough threads to go back that far. It is too far towards the rear of the car.

Problem #2 with it is that to my understanding(and according to the Osborn manual I think), the kickdown cable is suppose to be perfectly parallel with the ground, but if I were to attach my kickdown cable, it would be slanted because my accelerator rod doesn't go down far enough.

So I don't know if I got the wrong accelerator assembly or maybe TCP's throttle linkage is junk or what, but this is driving me crazy, it's the only thing holding me up from starting my car for the FIRST TIME!!! :crybaby: If it is in fact the wrong accelerator assembly, I don't know how to tell because I don't believe there are any numbers stamped on those.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I just looked in NPD's catalog, and at least from the picture they provide, my accelerator linkage is correct. And I know everything else(besides the TCP linkage, aftermarket is always questionable) is correct as far as parts go though I suppose I could have something installed wrong. From the look of the Osborn manual, the actual kickdown arm on the tranny is vertical, but from the look of the pic in NPD's catalog, it is horizontal, which I suppose is NPD was right, that would fix the first problem. And then perhaps the second problem isn't really even a problem, maybe it's not suppose to be horizontal. I don't know anything conclusively because neither NPD's nor the Osborn manual have very good detail.

Everything mentioned(including pics) in this topic is correct on my car.

This dude was apparently having the same problem, so I PM'ed him, but who knows if he'll answer or if he even got it fixed. I have not measured my cable, but it came from NPD and they say it is EDIT10.25".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
Aaron,
It sounds like we need to start from square one on this. You linked a previous post that shows a couple of my pics. Does your cable look like what I showed? Do you have the lever attached to the tranny similar to the 2nd photo I showed? I believe you said earlier that the lever on your tranny is set at about a 1-2 o'clock position? With the gas pedal in relaxed position, what is the distance between the end of the accelerator linkage arm that hangs down and the center of tranny arm lever?

Are you saying that the cable is slanted upward?
What is the length of the accelerator arm in your linkage setup?

The distance of the two kickdown cables I have from tip to tip is 10-1/8". Does not include the lever that it attaches to on the tranny. If you cable is similar to this then it's either the linkage arm length or the position of the lever on the tranny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My cable looks identical.
Lever is attached to tranny just as shown.
You are correct, it is at 1-2 o'clock.
That measurement, unfortunately, can not be taken till Thursday(my car is at my Dad's shop, not home unfortunately). As I said above, it's new from NPD, who says it's 10.25"(EDIT), so that's probably it. I will still measure it though.

If I connected the cable, yes, it would be slanted upward(starting at the tranny and moving upward towards the accelerator). I'm not even sure that this matters as it appears it would still function properly, I just thought it worthwhile to mention.

This measurement can also not be taken till Thursday. I assume you mean the vertical arm on the bellcrank?

In my setup, as far as I can tell, everything is identical to the Osborn manual.

Edit #2 I'll try to have my Dad take the measurements when he goes to work tomorrow but a) ther'es no guarantee he'll remember and b) he's not very familiar with trannies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,897 Posts
Acooljt said:
it's the only thing holding me up from starting my car for the FIRST TIME!!!
Why do you need the kickdown to START your car? :bs:

Acooljt said:
This measurement can also not be taken till Thursday
Why not take some photos of your set up and let people try to offer suggestions as to what is wrong.[/quote]



Acooljt said:
Edit #2 I'll try to have my Dad take the measurements when he goes to work tomorrow but a) ther'es no guarantee he'll remember and b) he's not very familiar with trannies.

:notamused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
I just realized that I do not an arm to measure so maybe having you measure the length will get us nowhere unless someone chimes in saying that they can measure the length of their kickdown arm.

How far away is the arm from the end of the cable at WOT?

Can you connect the cable at idle? If so where along the threaded rod does it lie?


I do not remember how to initally set the cable up for a c4 but while under the car, if you hold the pedal linkage at WOT (put a stick between gas pedal and seat riser) and pull the cable forward, pivoting the tranny lever from 1-2 to 10-11 o'clock position, are you saying you cannot conect the cable to the kickdown arm of the linkage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
I agree, take some pics from a sideview. I want to see the side of the tranny with the cable attached and held level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
fast68back said:
Acooljt said:
it's the only thing holding me up from starting my car for the FIRST TIME!!!
Why do you need the kickdown to START your car? :bs:

Acooljt said:
This measurement can also not be taken till Thursday
Why not take some photos of your set up and let people try to offer suggestions as to what is wrong.
[/quote]

I could start it, but then I can't GO anywhere(well, I could, but considering where I live has hills everywhere, I need that downshift).

Also, I would have taken pics, but the only sort of camera I had at the time was my phone, and it takes crappy pics.

I can connect the kickdown at idle. Also, I know how to adjust it properly, that was given to me in a previous thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,415 Posts
FWIW, on my 66 the cable at rest is not parallel to the ground. It is looped up a few inches, it not under any tension. Remember that it should downshift until the throttle is depressed quite a bit. I'll see if I can get a photo of what it looks like without any pressure on the accelerator pedal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cool, then it's sounding like maybe I'll just have to re-crimp the cable(assuming I can get it UN-crimped). Any ideas on how to get the cable uncrimped? That thing's so small I don't know if you can get a pair of needle-nose in there or not.

Also, I was told in one of my former thread's from a guy who knew someone that worked in a C4 plant that the proper procedure was to put it at WOT, turn the trunnion till it's tight at WOT, then back it off 1 whole turn. He explained it better than me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
Aaron,
Just curious. When you are attempting to adjust the WOT:

Is the pedal pressed firmly to the floor via using a block, making sure the automatic choke is not preventing it to go all the way?

Are you pulling the cable forward, pivoting the downshift lever counter clockwise all the way til it stops?

At this point, you adjust the trunnion so that it will slide into the accelerator shaft lever, then secure it to the lever with the retaining clip.

There is no reason to uncrimp the cable. Why would you do that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, I'm doing it just as you say. I have my dad hold the throttle open while I pull the kickdown lever over and adjust accordingly. I don't think the auto choke could be doing anything as mine has never had power to it(it's hooked to the Stator terminal, and the car has never been started, so...).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
Of course the choke can be in the way. With the pedal down, make sure the cam of the choke is not touching the fast idle screw.

If you are infact doing everthing correctly how far away from the center of the kickdown arm's hole is the end of the threaded part of the rod of the cable? Something just sounds totally wrong in set up.

At final adjustment you typically should have about maybe 1" of threaded rod in front of the trunnion when fastened.

How far is the foot surface of the middle of your gas pedal from the floorpan of the car while fully depressed at WOT? Should be about 4-3/8"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Actually, if the choke stop was holding it up, that would be better, not worse.

Also, I don't know that the distance from the end of the rod to the kickdown hole will make a difference because the cable is too long, not too short.

And also, I can't measure the pedal to floorpan as my pedal is not on at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have one, and will definitely take pics tomorrow. Like I said before, my car is at my Dad's shop so I didn't have a camera. I will be going up tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
Is the pedal assembly mounted to it's original holes as far as you know?

Please measure the length of the kickdown arm of such assembly, measuring approx from the center of the pivot up top, where it fastens to the car, down to the center of the hole that the trunnion goes through.

Also measure the horizontal distance of between the firewall to the end of this arm while in both idle and WOT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yes, they are the correct holes for the bellcrank, using any other would misalign it for the throttle and inside the car. Plus the chances of another set of 2 holes being precisely that distance apart is unlikely.

Turns out my Dad didn't take those measurements, so everything will have to wait till tomorrow. You'll have pics and all. I'm 90% sure that the cable is just too long. I'm positive everything is installed correctly, it's just a matter of if all of the parts are quality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,415 Posts
Acooljt said:
I'm 90% sure that the cable is just too long. I'm positive everything is installed correctly, it's just a matter of if all of the parts are quality.
The problem with that statement is the same cable works on other cars. Mine works as advertised, without cutting the cable shorter. Despite what you've said and done something is not right, I'm 99.9% sure it is not that the cable is too long. Measuure the length of the cable, and post it. I did not get a chance to tae a photo of mine today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,775 Posts
We have already posted that the cable is indeed 10-1/8" from tip to tip. Aaron please confirm.

Shortening the cable makes it worst. As I understand it, he cannot connect the linkage end of the cable to the end of the pedal linkage's kickdown arm because the cable is not long enough. This is while the gas pedal is depressed all the way and that he has pulled the cable forward causing the tranny kickdown lever to pivot forward all the way til it stops.

Aaron, If I am not correct in the above understandings, let me know.
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Top