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Discussion Starter #1
Does TCI have a link to their TWO 5.0 Coyote modular builds or the one that a customer did recently?

I am having some problems fitting the 2011 5.0 modular coyote engine into my 67 fastback that has the TCI front end and would really like to see the coyote build threads that you all have if they are available. Josh from TCI sent me a good many pictures of the oil pan clearance, so i figured there must be a TCI modular build thread on the internet somewhere, but i haven't located it yet.
I am having clearance issues at the rear of the motor. As it sits currently, the firewall will have to be cut out to make the bellhousing clear. The other issue is the front of the pan is resting on the steering rack. There is very little clearance at the crossmember, maybe 1/4", so if the motor needed to be moved forward, then i would be forced to notch the crossmember. Of course, i would much rather cut the crossmember than deal with hacking out the firewall. But, that will not resolve the clearance issue with the front of the pan and the steering rack. I sent pictures to TCI yesterday, so i am sure they will get back with me soon. In the meantime, i just thought i would check and see if there was a TCI modular build thread so i could compare pictures.
Thanks
 

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Does TCI have a link to their TWO 5.0 Coyote modular builds or the one that a customer did recently?

I am having some problems fitting the 2011 5.0 modular coyote engine into my 67 fastback that has the TCI front end and would really like to see the coyote build threads that you all have if they are available. Josh from TCI sent me a good many pictures of the oil pan clearance, so i figured there must be a TCI modular build thread on the internet somewhere, but i haven't located it yet.
I am having clearance issues at the rear of the motor. As it sits currently, the firewall will have to be cut out to make the bellhousing clear. The other issue is the front of the pan is resting on the steering rack. There is very little clearance at the crossmember, maybe 1/4", so if the motor needed to be moved forward, then i would be forced to notch the crossmember. Of course, i would much rather cut the crossmember than deal with hacking out the firewall. But, that will not resolve the clearance issue with the front of the pan and the steering rack. I sent pictures to TCI yesterday, so i am sure they will get back with me soon. In the meantime, i just thought i would check and see if there was a TCI modular build thread so i could compare pictures.
Thanks
Josh and I spoke yesterday about this. Unfortunately, Sal had to go in for an emergency surgery yesterday so we weren't able to get a definitive answer from him. I looked over the pictures you sent to Josh and the motor mounts appear to be correct but as you've already surmised, every 1/4" makes a difference and a 1/4" can't be measured through a picture. The owner of the company(Ed) is involved now since Sal is absent but I don't think an answer is going to come today. We will without a doubt get this issue resolved, one way or another.

The only pics I have posted were given to me by one of Josh's customers.







The early crossmembers did not have a wide enough 45 degree notch in them. This customer helped us out by providing these pictures.



-J
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ed got in touch with me today and informed me that you all have not installed a 5.0 Coyote into a 67-68 mustang yet, contrary to what i was told previously. He also informed me that the only mounts you all sell were fabricated for a 4.6L install and that he had to cut out the firewall and modify the transmission tunnel to make it clear. I was told the motor mounts were specifically designed for the 5.0 coyote and that everything would clear without issue. Obviously not the case. I'll get to work on notching the crossmember and taking the necessary measurements to fab up correct motor mounts next week. Ed was a nice guy and I look forward to working with him.
 

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Ed got in touch with me today and informed me that you all have not installed a 5.0 Coyote into a 67-68 mustang yet, contrary to what i was told previously. He also informed me that the only mounts you all sell were fabricated for a 4.6L install and that he had to cut out the firewall and modify the transmission tunnel to make it clear. I was told the motor mounts were specifically designed for the 5.0 coyote and that everything would clear without issue. Obviously not the case. I'll get to work on notching the crossmember and taking the necessary measurements to fab up correct motor mounts next week. Ed was a nice guy and I look forward to working with him.
Just to clarify, we make 5.0 specific mounts. The engine bay you see above was the beta vehicle. It was not installed by TCI, it was done with the help of a customer. The engine fit in that car once the crossmember was updated and the proper revisions were made to the existing 4.6 mounts. The unfortunate thing for all of us was the tranny hadn't been installed. That was the missing piece of the puzzle that we were unaware of until now.

I am glad you and Ed had a chance to speak as he is the goto guy. I will be checking in with him on this issue frequently. We truly appreciate your patience.

-J
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
UPDATE ON TCI, Total Cost Involved front end.

BAD NEWS!!! The third and newest set of TCI motor mounts that were supposed to resolve the firewall clearance issues did not resolve anything. The bellhousing still does not clear and even with the Moroso pan installed the crossmember still needs to be notched. The guys at TCI really need to get their crap together. They assured me this time that they had brought a 67 into the shop and that everything fit well. My bellhousing is actually smaller than the stock or other aftermarket units, so I am sure more drama will unfold from the lack of proper engineering.

Plan-either cut the firewall and crossmember, or cut the crossmember and mounts and pay to have the mounts tig welded in the proper location.

Once i notch the crossmember, the engine will angle more downward at the rear and there will be even less clearance at the firewall.





Three sets of mounts from TCI, all were supposed to allow the engine to fit perfect without modification to the firewall or crossmember. Note how they notched the holes for more movement in the newest edition. Wow, what a change.



New pan. I at least can thank them for that, but it wasn't supposed to be necessary.



Engine sits in a good position, just needs to be another 1/2 to 1 inch forward.





Im going to see how the most forward mounts fit tomorrow after notching the crossmember. I might need to move the radiator forward, but that is better than cutting into the firewall.
 

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This is Sal

Thanks for the feedback, we appreciate it whether it is negative or positive. We have worked diligently to resolve the issues with the installation of the Coyote engine. Assumptions were made about the fitment difference between the 4.6 and 5.0 mod motors. We never intended to mislead our customers. Our salesperson was under the impression that all mod motors were the same. As soon as we realized there were issues we immediately acquired a Coyote engine and transmission to address the problem our customers were having. As a result we redesigned the front crossmember and engine mounts to accomodate this new engine installation. Which allowed us to move the motor 1" further forward to give clearance for the bellhousing at the firewall. We do not have all the different variations of transmissions for fitment. With all custom applications there is a certain amount of gray area. At this point that we will probably have to be modifications to the tunnel to get a 5 or 6 speed transmission to fit.


Our customer base wanted a suspension system that would lower their vehicle yet retain the proper geometry. When we set out to design this front end we started with a clean sheet of paper. We have built and sold these kits for over 5 years with positive customer feedback. Just not the ones with Coyote motors.

You can e-mail me directly [email protected]

Here are the moch up pics taken by Ed.

This is his personal car, which is a '67 fastback.


Here is the angle finder showing 3 degrees.


Here are a couple shots of the firewall clearance with the new mounts.






Here is the tranny we borrowed from Adam @ ST Motorsports. Because of the thickness of the bosses there is very little room at the firewall with this tranny. When running a 5 & 6 speed your best bet will be the quicktime bellhousing.



What we did then was remove the engine and moch it up on the crossmeber outside the chassis to get more detailed pics. This will show that the stock oil pan will clear the crossmember and rack.









-Sal
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Sal and others. Here is what i had to do yesterday in order to get the engine and transmission to fit. It's done now, but there are still some major obastacles to overcome, mainly the brake master cylinder. The TKO 600 is taller than the T-56, so it requires the floor to be raised about 2". I installed a 4.6 with a t-56 into another 67 with a different front end and i did not have to modify the trans tunnel at all, only the shifter hole location.
The engine and transmission are in.

I notched the crossmember about another 1" or so inward at the bottom and used a 20 pound sledge to persuade the metal to move to its new location. I don't understand why you all needed to add an additional notch for clearance to your new crossmember at the very front. If the stock oil pan hits at that location in the old crossmember, then it will certainly not clear the steering rack, so the front notch should not be needed.





Then the real fun began. I tried to just cut a little of the lower firewall/trans tunnel but it was a no go. The bellhousing needed more clearance than i thought and the transmission needed another 2" minimum from the front of the trans tunnel to behind the forward shifter location on the TKO.




I took out the upper middle portion of the trans mount crossmember support to provide more clearance.





Here is how much the tunnel needs to be raised with the transmission and engine sitting at the correct angle.





Clearance issues with the master cylinder. This is a 1995 Mustang Cobra brake master cylinder, same as the one i have in the other 67 that clears the 4.6L without issue, but it doesnt even come close to clearing the valve cover on this car. I am not sure what will need to be done at this point to provide clearance for either this master cylinder or a hydroboost kit.



Here is another issue. the mount crossmember may be the problem. Once the mount arrives i will know how much it needs to be shortened to support the transmission and engine at the correct angle.

 

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TCI 4.6l DOHC build

I'm having some firewall clearance issues also. Im wondering if the TCI 4.6 motor mounts will help fix this problem, and if there would be any clearance issues with the alternator and oil filter.
 

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After reading this, and the other post about TCI on other website, I have a feeling, I really SCREWED UP buying their system, I saw it in Reno and seen it on Stacey David's show, I figured if he used it and had it on his show it must be good, Sal right now is not even returning any of my phone call, I was told the same thing all would work, but come to find out they never did install a FE Engine with a C6 transmission even though Jason told me they did, Sal told me they did not even have a C6 trans so how could it been done?, Someone from TCI needs to starting checking websites to see what is being said about them when it comes to their Mustang set-ups. My car is already cut up so I will just have to deal with what ever I have to and get the car done.
 

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I'm having some firewall clearance issues also. Im wondering if the TCI 4.6 motor mounts will help fix this problem, and if there would be any clearance issues with the alternator and oil filter.


Are you not using our mounts now?

After reading this, and the other post about TCI on other website, I have a feeling, I really SCREWED UP buying their system, I saw it in Reno and seen it on Stacey David's show, I figured if he used it and had it on his show it must be good, Sal right now is not even returning any of my phone call, I was told the same thing all would work, but come to find out they never did install a FE Engine with a C6 transmission even though Jason told me they did, Sal told me they did not even have a C6 trans so how could it been done?, Someone from TCI needs to starting checking websites to see what is being said about them when it comes to their Mustang set-ups. My car is already cut up so I will just have to deal with what ever I have to and get the car done.
Pat,

You have talked to Sal on a few occasions and as I understand it all issues had been resolved. If there are new issues then by all means I will make sure Sal calls you back.

I am sorry for the confusion but please make sure to read your thread again because at no time did you mention a C6 tranny.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/total-cost-involved-engineering/641930-measurements.html


-J
 

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Are you not using our mounts now?



Pat,

You have talked to Sal on a few occasions and as I understand it all issues had been resolved. If there are new issues then by all means I will make sure Sal calls you back.

I am sorry for the confusion but please make sure to read your thread again because at no time did you mention a C6 tranny.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/total-cost-involved-engineering/641930-measurements.html


-J
I verbally said I was using a C6 with josh when i was at Bill's shop ordering the kit, I also told Sal that is what I was using, still waiting to hear from sone one who has installed the kit, I have calle dSal twice now and still no word on anyone, if there has been over 200 sets sold you would think you would have someone that people could talk to and see how their set ups went.
 

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I verbally said I was using a C6 with josh when i was at Bill's shop ordering the kit, I also told Sal that is what I was using, still waiting to hear from sone one who has installed the kit, I have calle dSal twice now and still no word on anyone, if there has been over 200 sets sold you would think you would have someone that people could talk to and see how their set ups went.
Sal's dialing as I type this.


-J
 

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Jason, not to be a A$$ about this on the trans, I talked to Bill yesterday and he told me that Josh did ask about what trans was being used and that Bill also wrote it on the ordering paperwork so there would be no confusion of what trans I was using, I just wanted to claifiy things. the only thing changed was the engine, instead of using the 460, I went back to the FE390, and that was well before my kit was being assembled in your shop.
 

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Jason, not to be a A$$ about this on the trans, I talked to Bill yesterday and he told me that Josh did ask about what trans was being used and that Bill also wrote it on the ordering paperwork so there would be no confusion of what trans I was using, I just wanted to claifiy things. the only thing changed was the engine, instead of using the 460, I went back to the FE390, and that was well before my kit was being assembled in your shop.

We're talking about two different things. I am aware you made it clear to the sales department as to which direction you were going with the engine so they could get you the proper parts.

The issue at hand is you calling me and the company liars because you think that I told you something that I didn't. You have now posted that information on two websites that I know of, both here and at Pro-Touring.

I am not trying to point fingers, I just want anyone reading this to understand both sides of the story.

-J
 

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We're talking about two different things. I am aware you made it clear to the sales department as to which direction you were going with the engine so they could get you the proper parts.

The issue at hand is you calling me and the company liars because you think that I told you something that I didn't. You have now posted that information on two websites that I know of, both here and at Pro-Touring.

I am not trying to point fingers, I just want anyone reading this to understand both sides of the story.

-J
I am not calling anyone a liar, bottom line here, is I was told that TCI had installed the FE into a car, in which it has not, you have done a 66 mustang along with the car you guys are building, I was told it was a weld in system with no modifactions needed, I was not told the engine sat higher or futher back than stock, I was not told I needed a different oil pan until after the fact and I started asking questions about what else I needed.
And if you want to talk about other website, post up what other people are saying about TCI not telling them the truth, couple of people have said they have done the FE in the Mustang, yet no one has any pictures of the projects, I could have stopped Bill yesterday from finishing with your kit but have decided I am going forward with the install and will take pictures and document what works and what does not and will forward all information to Sal, so when it does come up again TCI will know what needs to be done to make the system work. All I am posting is what I have been told and nothing else.
 

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Are you not using our mounts now?



Pat,

You have talked to Sal on a few occasions and as I understand it all issues had been resolved. If there are new issues then by all means I will make sure Sal calls you back.

I am sorry for the confusion but please make sure to read your thread again because at no time did you mention a C6 tranny.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/total-cost-involved-engineering/641930-measurements.html


-J
No. I guess I have the 302 mounts.

I talked to Josh yesterday about my situation. He said the current 4.6 mounts you currently have might not work with the crossmember I currently have just like restocreations. That I would have to modify the crossmember(which I really don't want to do).

I understand I might have to modify the trans tunnel, which I don't mind doing.

I talked to Josh about returning my 302 mounts and getting your 4.6 mounts. My concerns are if the 4.6 mounts don't work out, I just spent more money on mounts I didn't need, and would have to modify my own mounts.

I left a message with him yesterday after speaking with your return dept. and never heard anything back again.
 

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No. I guess I have the 302 mounts.

I talked to Josh yesterday about my situation. He said the current 4.6 mounts you currently have might not work with the crossmember I currently have just like restocreations. That I would have to modify the crossmember(which I really don't want to do).

I understand I might have to modify the trans tunnel, which I don't mind doing.

I talked to Josh about returning my 302 mounts and getting your 4.6 mounts. My concerns are if the 4.6 mounts don't work out, I just spent more money on mounts I didn't need, and would have to modify my own mounts.

I left a message with him yesterday after speaking with your return dept. and never heard anything back again.

The 4.6 engine will interfere with the SBF cross member you have. If you had the Mod cross member and our mounts then you would be fine.

The SBF cross member can be modified but it would be pretty involved and it is not something that we have a manual on how to do. I can provide pictures and dimensions so you have a basic guideline of where you need to be.

I'll talk to Suzanne(the lady who does our returns) and see what the status is.

-J
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The new 5.0 mounts will not resolve the firewall clearance issue unless you are running a kiesler transmission, which can be tricky to get a hold of, but even then, i think you will still need to notch the firewall for bellhousing clearance. I am using a quicktime bellhousing and i am not familiar with the stock bellhousing, but Sal said the quicktime was smaller than the stock unit.
I'll be back to work on the car soon and will start a build thread on this website.

I had to drop $1250.00 on a Kugel 90 degree brake pedal assembly and remote reservoirs so that i could have power brakes with the coyote installed with the TCI. I suppose if you did not want power brakes, you could run the smallest single master cylinder wilwood provided, but that probably would not be the best choice. Im impressed with the Kugel brake components and they should work out nicely, but a lot of fabrication and welded is in my near future.

I also just had to order a set of TCIs new stock ride height spindles. The dropped units, which were the only ones available when i ordered the package last year, make the car sit way, way too low.
 
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