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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 1967 mustang and I going to do a engine swap, i'm just having a hard time choosing between a Terminator with 6 speed or a Coyote with a TKO600. I'm concerned about all the wiring using a factory harness with the terminator, but I love the power and sound of the supercharger. I have been reading about oil consumption issues with the coyote and issues stalling, surging with the hotrod wiring and ECU from ford racing. Just looking for some input to help a make a decision.
 

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Coyote! I have read that you cannot supercharge it with the FRPP harness and ECM. Must use the Mustang parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I have read that people having issues with Ford racing ECM, stalling and surging. There has been a few updates so mabye it is not an issue. I still dont know what trans to use behind the Coyote, the TKO500 has third gear shifting issues on some transmissions and some dont. I am running a 8.8 with 3.73 and 31 spline axels, so I dont think I need a 6 speed, but it would save some gas on the highway. I was looking at a Tremec 6060 from a 2007 GT500, just wonder what I would need to swap that trans into my car.
 

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I vote terminator. I'm not trying to be partial due to thats what I have in my 65. I have a bbk throttle body and a c&l cold air setup with a 2.65 upper. I have a friend that just supercharged his new coyote. He made 471 hp and 400 ft lbs torque. I just had my setup tuned and will include my dyno sheet. I had efi wiring do my harness and it was a simple 4 wire hookup. You can also check Dunne-rite performance ,they have a sweet setup for the 4.6 dohc engines that is priced right. I don't know alot about the internals of the coyote motor but i think it is a beautiful engine and is strong from the factory. But the terminator was built from ford to raise hell. If you need any help or have any questions, just let me know. Thanks
 

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I haven't had any issues with the trans. I installed a hurst shifter during the build and the shifts feel smooth and precise. We were able to get the motor low enough that the trans fit the tunnel without any modifications
 

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Although the newer technology in the Coyote is certainly intriguing I think for ultimate power the nod still has to go to a Terminator. The dual variable cam timing can do wonders for a n/a engine in terms of cylinder filling but the moment you put a blower on top, the cylinder filling advantage quickly fades.

In terms of prepping the Coyote engine for high supercharged cylinder pressures, you're going to have to both replace the pistons/rings and go through the bottom end replacing the powdered metal connecting rods. Things like the oiling system and cooling system I would have to give the Coyote the nod for a more refined solution. One item no one has spoken to in a Coyote is the increased snout length on the crank to accommodate the variable cam timing hardware. When Ford did this they kept the snout diameter at 1.25", which with the added length and strain from a supercharger is certain to take its toll on crankshafts and, of course, remember there is no front crank support for the Coyote yet.

On balance for a n/a application the Coyote is very hard to beat. It produces essentially the same power per liter as a stock Eaton blown Terminator but n/a - albeit without the low speed blast of a Terminator. To actually feel the pull of 400HP you need to get up in the engine speed to enjoy that power. The Terminator package on the other hand has power everywhere (sometimes too much - if that is possible) and is still the undefeated world heavy weight champ in the supercharged ranks. When you enhance it with items like the BOSS 5.0 big bore block and some of the second generation twin screws, it may be a long time before you find a more robust platform. In turbocharged trim the Terminator design is nothing short of spectacular. Both engines give an excellent showing but when you have to have the most power at the tire at any rpm, a Terminator is unchallenged - in my opinion.
 

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I've seen a lot of bolt on blower kits for the Coyote, and for the life of me, I don't know how they are doing it with the compression that motor has from the factory.
 

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If you want a n/a set up go Coyote but if you want the engine with more power capability run a Terminator engine all day. I took a donor 04 Cobra and transplanted the entire drivetrain and interior into a 98 V6 stang with Cobra body parts. That was one sick car. With a 2.76 upper pulley and home ported blower I made 476 RWHP. I put a NX wet shot on it and made 560 RWHP. I would have preferred to just change the blower to a Whipple or Kenne Bell though and made 600-650 RWHP. That much power to the ground is insane fun and if you have the clutch and shifter set up properly the t56 is a dream to drive.

Here's a few of my old videos. The highway blast is a 3rd gear pull from 70-120 when it was making 476 RWHP.







my old dyno sheets during tuning on and off the juice....

 

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I've seen a lot of bolt on blower kits for the Coyote, and for the life of me, I don't know how they are doing it with the compression that motor has from the factory.
I'm sure they're pulling a lot of timing at low RPMs and probably using the variable cam timing to reduce compression too. I'm running 10.5:1 compression on a 4.6 with an Eaton blower at 10# boost (4# pulley), but I'm burning E85. Bret (vecotech) is running 10.5:1 on his with 91 or 93 octane, at 6.5# boost (stock pulley). It's all in the tune, and we're both using 01 Cobra cams, which have longer intake duration so it lowers the boost and dynamic compression (but makes more power).
 

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Although the newer technology in the Coyote is certainly intriguing I think for ultimate power the nod still has to go to a Terminator. The dual variable cam timing can do wonders for a n/a engine in terms of cylinder filling but the moment you put a blower on top, the cylinder filling advantage quickly fades.

In terms of prepping the Coyote engine for high supercharged cylinder pressures, you're going to have to both replace the pistons/rings and go through the bottom end replacing the powdered metal connecting rods. Things like the oiling system and cooling system I would have to give the Coyote the nod for a more refined solution. One item no one has spoken to in a Coyote is the increased snout length on the crank to accommodate the variable cam timing hardware. When Ford did this they kept the snout diameter at 1.25", which with the added length and strain from a supercharger is certain to take its toll on crankshafts and, of course, remember there is no front crank support for the Coyote yet.

On balance for a n/a application the Coyote is very hard to beat. It produces essentially the same power per liter as a stock Eaton blown Terminator but n/a - albeit without the low speed blast of a Terminator. To actually feel the pull of 400HP you need to get up in the engine speed to enjoy that power. The Terminator package on the other hand has power everywhere (sometimes too much - if that is possible) and is still the undefeated world heavy weight champ in the supercharged ranks. When you enhance it with items like the BOSS 5.0 big bore block and some of the second generation twin screws, it may be a long time before you find a more robust platform. In turbocharged trim the Terminator design is nothing short of spectacular. Both engines give an excellent showing but when you have to have the most power at the tire at any rpm, a Terminator is unchallenged - in my opinion.
Nice write-up. And may I say you have one of the nicest and cleanest looking mod conversion in a classic Stang that I have seen. Kudos.

I agree with a lot of your opinions, and the Termy is a wicked and well proven mod motor that can build tremendous power and get amazing fuel economy. They are also less expensive and depending the year, many readily available parts for good prices are also available. CS never seemed to get fully behind the 4.6 though, and waited for the 5.0 to build his GT-350's. Maybe it was just an excuse to do something with this new generation Stang from a marketing standpoint?

With the Coyote, SC/forced induction damage to PMR's shouldn't be a factor with mild 6-7# boost and proper tuning. There are many SC coyotes out there, although I have not heard any bad stories about their reliability or lack there-of, I keep looking. There is now also a Ford Racing Coyote Aluminizer with forged internals, which of course only adds to the price tag even more.

Many other cons to the Coyote is that you have to figure out a lot of the install equation in the 65-70 'Stangs, as there doesn't seem to be near as many proven methods and installs as the 4.6. Nor is there yet a one stop shop for solving this riddle, and the issues of PS, PB, headers, front suspension cross members and trans combos etc, as everyone seems to have blazed their own trails so far in this department, although I know it is just around the bend with a couple outfits. The coyote is an engineering marvel though, and with the power, fuel economy and the fact that it is probably here to stay for many years, I think it will only get easier and better over time. I think the OP has some decisions to make.
 

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Although the newer technology in the Coyote is certainly intriguing I think for ultimate power the nod still has to go to a Terminator. The dual variable cam timing can do wonders for a n/a engine in terms of cylinder filling but the moment you put a blower on top, the cylinder filling advantage quickly fades.

In terms of prepping the Coyote engine for high supercharged cylinder pressures, you're going to have to both replace the pistons/rings and go through the bottom end replacing the powdered metal connecting rods. Things like the oiling system and cooling system I would have to give the Coyote the nod for a more refined solution. One item no one has spoken to in a Coyote is the increased snout length on the crank to accommodate the variable cam timing hardware. When Ford did this they kept the snout diameter at 1.25", which with the added length and strain from a supercharger is certain to take its toll on crankshafts and, of course, remember there is no front crank support for the Coyote yet.

On balance for a n/a application the Coyote is very hard to beat. It produces essentially the same power per liter as a stock Eaton blown Terminator but n/a - albeit without the low speed blast of a Terminator. To actually feel the pull of 400HP you need to get up in the engine speed to enjoy that power. The Terminator package on the other hand has power everywhere (sometimes too much - if that is possible) and is still the undefeated world heavy weight champ in the supercharged ranks. When you enhance it with items like the BOSS 5.0 big bore block and some of the second generation twin screws, it may be a long time before you find a more robust platform. In turbocharged trim the Terminator design is nothing short of spectacular. Both engines give an excellent showing but when you have to have the most power at the tire at any rpm, a Terminator is unchallenged - in my opinion.
Gonna agree with everything you said. As a former 04 owner putting 620 down at the tire, it is just a guaranteed option and they are capable of much more once you start getting into turbo's, etc. The motors are just bullitt proof and fully forged from the factory.

If you are not looking for a ton of power then the Coyote is a good option. I would not put too much weight in the problems some people are having because they will all get worked out.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I am leaning towards the coyote, I can get the engine, wiring and altenator for $7500 shipped, I have the TKO 600 that I bought for $800. I am looking at around $8500 in the car with a new clutch. Most of the terminator swaps are around $9000-$10000, with at least 40000 miles. I think the terminator would make more power for less, but I think the Coyote will be a nice N/A swap and can be modded for more power if needed.
 

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There’s no comparison. The coyote is superior is every way, and their boosted numbers are ridiculous. You can make way more power, easier with a coyote than the dated terminator motors. If you’re willing to run e85 you can make 800 hp without even trying with a coyote motor. We broke the 1000 mark with my buddies with a single turbo, and all it has done to it are crower rods, and billet oil pump gears. The terminator was good for it’s time, but almost 20 years have passed, and it can’t touch a coyote.
 
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