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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Not sure how to parlay this into a "Mustang" thread, but I figure the vintage Falcon, and Cougar chassis are almost identical to the comparable year Mustang. I'll reference "Sally" my 65 wagon alot during this thread as that is what I'm building. With that being said, almost all the info I will present in this thread could and should be applicable to 1964 - 1970 Mustangs and variants.

This is a "Spinoff" of 1stLove's 2.3 EB thread in which I am a contributor. Instead of mucking up the 2.3EB thread, a 3.5EB swap thread has been created.

Sally started life as a 1965 Futura 4 door wagon... or a "Longroof" as we call them. She was well optioned with the Futura V8 (289/C4) package, Deluxe interior, 2 tone exterior, Power steering, Power brakes, etc. 20200821_130006.jpg

Original plans involved a small block ford 333 stroker, EFI, and a 4R70W, posi 8.8, Borgeson Box, Vintage Air, Dakota Digital Dash, new custom interior, 80" slider, safari cage, mini tub, etc.

With the EcoBoost bug biting me, I purchased a 2016/17 Mustang 2.3EB for my other 65 Falcon "Coop" which is detailed in the other thread. Now, alot of the same procedures, learnings, tech, apply to both the 2.3 as well as the 3.5 from a wiring and engine control standpoint. This, by far, is the most difficult portion of the swap, at least thus far.

I figured "If" I was going to jump in to the EB swapping pool, I might as well do so with concrete slippers in the deep end. With that idea in mind, and a whole bunch of herb to back my decision, I decided to pull the trigger on a 2020 3.5L EB with a whopping 946 miles on it. The truck center punched a tree so there is some minor damage up front. She needs a new TB, and a couple plastic water outlets up front and thats about it. ltufsr.jpg more3.jpg more1.jpg

Now this is the Gen 2 3.5 with Di as well as port injection, Variable Valve timing, low profile intake, Electronic turbo wastegates, the works.In stock form, with a stock 2020 Ford Raptor tune this engine puts out 450RWHP and 510 Ft/Lbs of torque... STOCK. That should be enough to make a guy's ass pucker. If not there are several 490HP tunes out there.

My hope is to swing this beasty in, mate it to the 4R70W, slam it as far down in the bay as I can WITHOUT chopping up the car. The conclusion that I and several others have come to, is that the turbos will need to be relocated, the pan modified for our steering system, and a good fuel system are mandatory for it to fit.

Now in my case, I will not be running the EB trans 6R or 10R as I refuse to chop my floor pans, To fit the SBF patterned 4R70W trans to the 3.5 an adapter plate will need to be created, same as the 2.3, as well as a crank hub /spacer. As the 3.5 is an 8 bolt hub, I ordered up a Ford Modular flexplate from a Crown Vic as it has the correct Torque convertor pattern and has an 8 hole hub pattern. I also have a 4.6 patterned 4R70W sitting here that I could also make an adapter plate for. For those of you wanting to run the later Ford trans, significant floor pan and trans tunnel mods will need to be made to accommodate the size and positioning of those transmissions, and I will not be covering those mods, but they are the same mods needed to do a Coyote swap, therefore well documented on the Google machine. 20200924_154820.jpg 3.jpg

So the 3.5 Raptor pan will not fit as it is a rear sump and that is no mas for our chassis. the standard F150 3.5Eb 2 piece pan looked promising, but it too would need severe modifications and they leak like a sieve. I'm heavily Eyeballing the early Taurus pan. It looks like it may be a very good candidate for some trimming.

Anyways, it's just a thought... Feel free to throw out any advise or ideas on this one.
 

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I'll be looking for the next up date.
What's your plan for engine control? A ford raceing contol pack?

I'll be intrested in seeing how that wide mother slips in that small eng compartment. I know you said you would'nt cut the floor but those 6r80 trans are nicce in sport mode .
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'll be looking for the next up date.
What's your plan for engine control? A ford raceing contol pack?

I'll be intrested in seeing how that wide mother slips in that small eng compartment. I know you said you would'nt cut the floor but those 6r80 trans are nicce in sport mode .
Oh, I'm not bashing the 6 speed, I just am not the guy to do it LOL... I just didn't want to have some poor soul pour through this post 2 years from now looking for some tips on that particular trans swap. Then again, I may have acquired one and a cancer victim car to put it into by then... LOL!

Nope, no Controls pack, My son and I have spent the better part of 3 months putting together a drop on harness and getting the PCM to operate as a stand-alone unit for the 2.3EB, we are still working on it, but we are close. As the 3.5 uses the same style PCM and a very similiar harness, It shouldn't be that difficult to make the same changes and expect the same results. Now with that said, it looks like the security protocols on the 2020 PCM may require some additional engineering steps. I have a PCM on the way here to play with while the other is headed to a friend. I cant stand the way Ford puts the PCM in the engine bay, That will be the first change, PCM in the cab. too much going on in that little box to be in a hot ass engine bay exposed to road splash and salt. Also, my harnesses will be setup for a passenger side Ford mini-starter instead of the OEM unit in order to match the transmissions starter location. Now for guys that want to keep the OEM EcoBoost Auto or manual a guy could easily retain the trans control and starter location. It would require some revisions to the harness, but is very doable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If anybody knows of any paddle shift controls out there for vintage style columns, post a link, and I will see if they can be used to control the OEM EB autos. I have full schematics of several chassis from Ford.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
...What did you use for engine mounts? ...
That is NOT my swap, Sorry if I misled, it wasn't my intention. Its a video I found on Youtube and snipped some screen grabs out of it... My motor is a gen 2 Raptor. The intake doesn't curve to the side and the water outlet stuff is all plastic. There are a ton of other internal upgrades as well. As much as I wish iwas that far along my 3.5EB is still in Texas... UGGH! These pics are what convinced me to drop divorce money on a motor... With shock towers, it will be a challenge, but with a well designed kit it should be doable. As wicked93gs stated on the other thread, its about as big as a 351W. I've stuffed some Windsors in some tight places so we will see. As far as Ford's security... It's been an adventure, thats for sure LOL...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
As far as mounts go, I may mid plate it and add a small front plate under the crank pulley. Or I may just go to the side of the block, it really depends on where it sits in the bay. The 2.3EB swap we are designing, while placing the motor in a traditional RWD position it mounts in a way that is more like a FWD setup, which is exactly what the engine was intended for as it's originally a Focus engine. Anyways, the 3.5EB engine will sit as low as possible, if that precludes a traditional side mount then so be it I see plenty of room for a nice front plate and maybe set the twins into it as well. I dunno... Its just a thought...

This is the midplate we have designed for the 2.3, we will probably do something similar for the 3.5 as it doubles as a trans adapter. At 3/4" thick 6061 alloy its plenty stout.

1613863561087.png
 

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Hey I don't feel misiled,lied to ,cheated or anything but am intrested in what's going on especially the ecm work arounds with the security features you and your son are attempting.

If you can do the swap and get it going I can see a whole other world for all kinds of swaps into old vehicles with these engines.
And not just Fords.
The drivetrains are out there but the needed hardware to make them run is the killer hold up unless it's going into something like it came out of.

Anybody can do that swap that has been did untold times. But it takes a brave sole to jump off into the unknown because a lot is just make it up and figure it out as you go along . Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey I don't feel misiled,lied to ,cheated or anything but am intrested in what's going on especially the ecm work arounds with the security features you and your son are attempting.

If you can do the swap and get it going I can see a whole other world for all kinds of swaps into old vehicles with these engines.
And not just Fords.
The drivetrains are out there but the needed hardware to make them run is the killer hold up unless it's going into something like it came out of.

Anybody can do that swap that has been did untold times. But it takes a brave sole to jump off into the unknown because a lot is just make it up and figure it out as you go along . Good luck
Yeah, thats the whole trick, the damn PCM. Same goes for the 2.3. It's an awesome little motor as well. Checkout the 2.3EB swap page I linked earlier. There is more info on this one as well as some info that may pertain to this one... I'm hoping the days of having to use everything from the tank to the steering column when doin these types of swaps is a thing of the past. I figure once I do get past PATS Ferd will sue me into oblivion LOL... We are close though...
783958

We have some additional tools coming in soon to aid in the fight. I'm confident that we are on the downhill side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This thread is awesome. Thanks for sharing all this info. I have a 65 Mustang project car that already has its towers chopped with a Rod & Custom front K member already installed. 3.5 Ecoboost may be the way to go.
I think so, As long as your good with the torque curve these engines produce, then yes they are a very nice swap candidate. Table top flat torque curve from just off idle to redline...
 

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This thread is awesome. Thanks for sharing all this info. I have a 65 Mustang project car that already has its towers chopped with a Rod & Custom front K member. 3.5 Ecoboost may be the way to go.
Don't jump into it in the blind as I did my 5.4 dohc& 6r80 swap . Decide on your eng/trans setup then make sure you can find a control system for what you plan.


As time go on i feel sure these swap will become eaiser as more people transition away from old school engines to smaller,lighter and in most cases a more powerful engine.

I figure as long as we can buy gas and the insurance company's will insure cars like our's somebody will always be pushing the envelope on powering them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Went and grabbed some pics of Sally's engine bay with her original 289 for reference... Coop was an L6 and the bay is empty. She is still sporting her original 289 in it's original position with its original manifolds etc... In other words bone stock. She was and will be a P/S car so we are going to gut the original system and go with a Borgeson box. Plans are to use a Volvo electric P/S pump. But we are also going to explore the use of some OEM belt driven pumps to see if we can run either one, depending on the chassis.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Motor will be delivered tomorrow so we can start getting it pulled down to a long block and start measuring. Just like the 2.3EB swap we are doing on Coop, everything will be based off the 289s original bellhousing position. Transmission mounting point will not move in order to keep this a bolt in affair for guys running older transmissions. As I stated before, I'm not interested in running the 6 or 10 speed monsters, but some folks will be, so we will try and make that as painless as possible when designing the install kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well she was delivered in a friggin' downpour but she's here. 946 miles on the clock. I'll get a ton of better pics once her stand arrives. But man, I'm stoked!
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As far as width and height compared to a 351w...they are almost identical, to within 1/4"....well, for the 3.7L, I expect the ecoboost will be 2" or so shorter due to manifold design. I do have the older ecoboost intake manifold from when I was trying to find a way to adapt it to work with injectors...before the ITBs, if you need it(not sure if there is any flow difference, but the plenum looks larger on the older manifold). One thing you will find is that the stock oil filter adapter ends up in the shock tower...I had to use a relocation kit, essentially swapping the alternator and filter locations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
As far as width and height compared to a 351w...they are almost identical, to within 1/4"....well, for the 3.7L, I expect the ecoboost will be 2" or so shorter due to manifold design. I do have the older ecoboost intake manifold from when I was trying to find a way to adapt it to work with injectors...before the ITBs, if you need it(not sure if there is any flow difference, but the plenum looks larger on the older manifold). One thing you will find is that the stock oil filter adapter ends up in the shock tower...I had to use a relocation kit, essentially swapping the alternator and filter locations.
Yup, she's a moose LOL... I just ordered the exact same engine stand my boosted 351W is sitting on for this "little" V6. It'll be interesting to have them sitting side by side. Yeah, Hunter has that weird oil filter elbow on his list of things to design. We are also putting a real P/S pump on it and relocating the alternator. As far as an A/C compressor, I'll probably put a Sanden S7 on it as those are my go to and Sally will be running a Vintage Air system.
 
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