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PS my garage (and I) never smelled like gasoline in any carb'd car I've owned, including the one in my sig pic. If a gassy smell is coming from a car, blame the person in charge of tuning it, not the technology, or lack of it.
Fumes or gas smell is a good indicator that something is amiss that needs attention.

New technology computers use all the sensors to mask a problem that should have been addressed way before it throws out an error code. That's one reason I never keep a newer car past its full warranty.

Just my opinion.

Bob
 

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For the folks that recommend a carb, what do you use to tune your carbs? It can't be hearing or smell, you have some type of Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) gauge? I have been debating this as well, I know my carb is not tuned very efficiently, other then tune to get max vacuum, not sure how you change jets and other things without a good AFR gauge? I know how to change them but what tool do you use to pick the best ones? My car also has a mild cam which I know I have to tune my carb for and the EFI would handle that on its own since its less vacuum. Tuning a carb does take knowledge and time and is sort of a a dieing art, most folks make it seem like its easy and no big deal, or is it just me.
Yep the best way to tune a carbed car is with an AFR. They're worth the money it will pay for itself in fuel economy or possible lean conditions leading to engine repairs.

A little bit of a learning curve this is hobby I use to learn & enjoy (most of the time).

Bob
 

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Right, so I've gone and ordered this because it's bound to happen eventually and i want some predictability with my classic when if i travel for 2 weeks and come back i don't want headaches starting plus i live in a warm climate so would like to use the car over summer as well in 115 degrees!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FIF-31003

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Man, that is not a bad price for the entire kit. I would have suggested the Holley sniper, but I think now-a-days they are both about comparable.

That said, I am not willing to put a comb over modern factory type efi on my car. When you pop the hood on my 65, it looks like it should until you notice that the distributor is missing and there is a fuel pressure regulator. Still, those differences are subtle and do not distract from the overall look and feel.

So I say, unless you want to maintain originality, there is no reason not to go efi.

Baxter
Yeah, the comb over. I installed the 5.0 EFI with the comb over (I use that term all the time too) and never did care for it. It did not look right and never ran right.

I went from the Ford 5.0 EFI and EEC to the Holley Terminator TBI with the HP ECU. It runs great and looks better than the comb over.

I switched to EFI because I wanted the convenience of PC tuning and trending. I had the 2v carb tuned fairly well on my 289, but it still was not perfect. I know with some more tweaking, I could have got it to start perfectly, every time, and I could have gotten the AFR to the perfect setting that the garage did not smell, but it is a convenience to be able to tune it from a PC, or have it self tune.

My only suggestion is, stay away from the Ford TFI distributors. They might seem like a cheap means to control the timing with EFI, but it is +30 yo technology. Either skip the PC controlled ignition and get a ready-to-run or an aftermarket controlled distributor (Holley dual sync, etc).
 

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I don't personally have either setup but will be buying the Holley Sniper EFI kit before the summer and have it ready to go before the weather starts getting nice again. I've heard mixed reviews on the FiTech, some of them being about the product itself in which a few members had to ship them back and exchange for another, but most of the issues were customer service related. Either you'd never get a call back or the sales associate wouldn't honor the warranty or whatnot. I think even one member lost his shorts on the FiTech because he got a couple different "lemons" and then he was out of the warranty period. I'm going to go with Holley because they've been around for almost 100 years and have had great luck with their carburetors as well as their customer service.

In terms of the argument for drivability and it driving like a classic? Well that went out the door when I first bought the car as the engine and transmission had both been replaced and then several years later I repainted the car, upgraded to 4 wheel power disc brakes, 17" wheels and tires, all brand new aftermarket suspension, a 5spd transmission and an engine that has over double the HP of a stock 289/302 with aluminum heads. Lastly, in terms of the "classic car feel", I don't know of any mustangs having had EFI back in the day, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but the Corvette and other vehicles have had EFI since the 1950's and even before. While this particular style of EFI I'm sure is quite different from those early types, it's not really something that's only been around for a few years. It's been around for over 70 years in terms of automobiles and even earlier for diesel engines, aircraft engines and so on. I'd think the pro's would severely outweigh the con's and like I said, I'll be buying the Holley Sniper before summer.
 

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No reason, except for the expense and time spent getting it dialed in. I'm condensing your own words in your post, but you are mentioning those things yourself.
Fair enough, especially as to cost. Time and tuning are part of the hobby for me. That's why I went with the Microsquirt as opposed to a more self tuning option.

PS my garage (and I) never smelled like gasoline in any carb'd car I've owned, including the one in my sig pic. If a gassy smell is coming from a car, blame the person in charge of tuning it, not the technology, or lack of it.
No doubt. I will gladly admit that I suck at tuning carbs. :)

Baxter
 

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My only suggestion is, stay away from the Ford TFI distributors. They might seem like a cheap means to control the timing with EFI, but it is +30 yo technology. Either skip the PC controlled ignition and get a ready-to-run or an aftermarket controlled distributor (Holley dual sync, etc).
I don't know if this was in response to me or not. If so, I am not running a distributor at all. I use a 36-1 crank trigger wheel and sensor similar to what is used on the late 5.0 Explorers. The Microsquirt reads the crank trigger directly and then fires two Motorcraft EDIS coil packs. Each coil pack is two coils with four outputs for wasted spark. These are the same coil packs on the Explorers and some other Ford products. They work great and the 36-1 trigger wheel gives rock solid timing at any usable RPM.

Baxter
 

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The PO stated that he doesn't have any experience tuning carbs. People have chimed in with extensive experience with carbs, probably built over many decades. For those that have the experience...good on you and I wish I had some more of it. It makes it easy to tune and keep it tuned. For a carb newb though, the situation is different. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with putting efi on a vintage mustang, especially the new throttle body systems that are hidden under an air cleaner. Looks original and, worst case scenario, has the drivability of a car with a well tuned carb. Best case is increased drivability and ease of tuning. Let's also not forget, for the purists, this this is not an irreversible mod.


If the internet and forums were around in the early 1900s, I'm sure people would claim that horses have worked for thousands of years too...why the need for motorized transportation? We are living in a golden age of rodding. sometimes it's best to embrace technology so each person gets the best experience out of our "hobbies". For me, my MSD Atomic kit is sitting in the garage for install as soon as I'm done rewiring the car...
 

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When I got my FB, almost 20 years ago, I switched out from a 2 bbl to a Holley 4bbl. Tuned it one time and haven't touched it since. Engine runs perfect. Never have had a problem.
Stan
 

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PS my garage (and I) never smelled like gasoline in any carb'd car I've owned, including the one in my sig pic. If a gassy smell is coming from a car, blame the person in charge of tuning it, not the technology, or lack of it.

Gotta disagree with you here Z. My car has always smelled up the garage. It doesn't leak and I always use a vacuum gauge to tune the carb. It doesn't smell of rich exhaust fumes. I can drive the car into the garage that hasn't been occupied by the car and turn it off. The engine has been on for what - maybe 30 seconds while in the garage? I can leave the garage door open and close it later. The garage will stink for maybe 5 days until the fuel bowl dries up, and then no more stink. I've talked with EFI guys and none have complained of stinky garages. I've gotta believe it's fuel vapor coming out the bowl vents. I rarely drive it more often than once a week. I know the fuel bowl is dry because it takes forever to get it started if I don't squirt some gas in the vent before I set the choke to start it. If I do fill the bowl it starts right up. If I drive it within a few days it starts right up. If its leaking internally and ends up in the intake manifold, then its been doing that since 1969 when I bought it. I've gone though many, many carb kits since then. Until I let it sit too long after my first wife passed, this was absolutely the most reliable car I ever had.
 

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Gotta disagree with you here Z. My car has always smelled up the garage. It doesn't leak and I always use a vacuum gauge to tune the carb. It doesn't smell of rich exhaust fumes. I can drive the car into the garage that hasn't been occupied by the car and turn it off. The engine has been on for what - maybe 30 seconds while in the garage? I can leave the garage door open and close it later. The garage will stink for maybe 5 days until the fuel bowl dries up, and then no more stink. I've talked with EFI guys and none have complained of stinky garages. I've gotta believe it's fuel vapor coming out the bowl vents. I rarely drive it more often than once a week. I know the fuel bowl is dry because it takes forever to get it started if I don't squirt some gas in the vent before I set the choke to start it. If I do fill the bowl it starts right up. If I drive it within a few days it starts right up. If its leaking internally and ends up in the intake manifold, then its been doing that since 1969 when I bought it. I've gone though many, many carb kits since then. Until I let it sit too long after my first wife passed, this was absolutely the most reliable car I ever had.
1). Your float was likely set too high. Some factory carb specifications, like Holley's) end up setting the float too high A gas smell in the garage is NOT going to happen when the fuel system is working correctly.

2). Your float bowl drying up was not normal. Although that situation can be difficult to diagnose, it's not impossible to cure. There is often a flaw in the carbcasting, and no amount of carb kits is going to fix that.


Z
 

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If I could do it again, I would do an EFI carb set up.

That said, I learned how to modify and tune my carb to the point where the EFI would not have any benefits other than adjusting itself for different weather. My carb runs noticeably leaner in 40-50* weather since I tuned it in ~85* weather. I only drive the car in 60-95* weather, and really 90% of the time in 70-90*.

If it's too cold to roll down the windows, or if I'm melting in the car, I don't drive it.

I do wonder if they make any more power at all at WOT.

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I don't know if this was in response to me or not. If so, I am not running a distributor at all. I use a 36-1 crank trigger wheel and sensor similar to what is used on the late 5.0 Explorers. The Microsquirt reads the crank trigger directly and then fires two Motorcraft EDIS coil packs. Each coil pack is two coils with four outputs for wasted spark. These are the same coil packs on the Explorers and some other Ford products. They work great and the 36-1 trigger wheel gives rock solid timing at any usable RPM.

Baxter


Naw, not directed at you, just a general suggestion to anyone considering EFI with ignition control. I quoted you on the “comb over” comment.


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I can't tune anything but a Holley 1850 and they leach gas. I live in one of the 2 counties in my state, by less than 2 miles, that are "non attainment areas", so we have emissions gas during the summer and it boils out of the carb and vapor locks every time you turn the car off even with the fancy spacer.

I bought the FiTech and Spectra EFI tank. The pump in the Spectra tank fried immediately due to the, apparently still present to this day with the currently produced tanks, "black gunk". The FiTech failed soon after that was fixed with a no tach signal situation. The Spectra people are vermin offering no help and speaking in French. I took French and they were messing with me with jive French at best. Cory at FiTech was able to eventually help me get a new TBI with an updated wiring harness just before the warranty expired.

I would go with the Holley over the FiTech because they are well established company with a larger tech support base. I applaud FiTech for breaking the $1000 FI barrier, although they went to China to do it.
Once sorted out, it runs well and doesn't percolate fuel.

I would do it again with a Holley Sniper and my own in tank pump setup. Purchase a solid pre-bent 3/8 fuel line from NPD and run it alongside the original 5/16 fuel line. Use the new 3/8 line as the supply and the original 5/16 as the return. It is the cheapest and safest way to go.
 

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I went with the sniper setup and a spectra tank and 3/8 pre bent line and will use the stock line as a return. Should have it all up and running come april!

Hidden under a factory gold stock air cleaner. With all the lines run to look factory. I can't totally hide a bunch of the other stuff, but I'll do my best to make it look like the factory intended it to be there!
 

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I went Holley Sniper - the tech support community is strong, and the software seemed easy to understand. I just did all the measurements and engine rotation to install my distributor (MSD) and phase the rotor. The Sniper comes with a coil driver, so you can control timing without a big MSD ignition box as well. It also has a built in relay for the fuel pump.

I needed all new fuel system components...fuel tank, lines, etc. For me, EFI was a no brainer. The sniper, and other TB kits, still gives you the classic underhood look.
 

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I think some of it is personal preference, and/or what you are used to.

For me, I grew up with fuel injection, however... Not on my Mustang, but when I built my Cobra kit, I initially used the stock Ford EFI and even went as far as putting a Vortech blower on it. Drove it for several years like that, then got the full vintage bug. Pulled the motor, swapped in a 331 with dual quad carbs and haven’t looked back. The sound, smell and look of a carb is pure vintage to me! I knew nothing about carbs and have learned to tweak it to run pretty well.

I’ve since rebuilt the Mustang carb as well and it runs pretty well too. I only put a few thousand miles at most on them annually, so I may not be the best data point. Good Luck!
 

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Converted this engine from SEFI 5 years or better ago no changes but the induction. only issue was the foam floats went bad and installed brass ones 3 years ago no issues since. Winter only adjust the idle feed screws about a quarter turn. I drive it any nice day and take 1000 mile or better trips often as well as around town. gets 24 mpg

The injected version only got about 20 mpg after months of data logging and tuning didnt preform as the carbs

Now my truck a 86 dually with a 460 built for towing would get around 14 mpg until the inner pivots of the twin I beams screwed up the alignment. have thought about CFI on it from time to time
 

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For the folks that recommend a carb, what do you use to tune your carbs? It can't be hearing or smell, you have some type of Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) gauge? I have been debating this as well, I know my carb is not tuned very efficiently, other then tune to get max vacuum, not sure how you change jets and other things without a good AFR gauge? I know how to change them but what tool do you use to pick the best ones? My car also has a mild cam which I know I have to tune my carb for and the EFI would handle that on its own since its less vacuum. Tuning a carb does take knowledge and time and is sort of a a dieing art, most folks make it seem like its easy and no big deal, or is it just me.
when i learned to tune carbs, the a/f meters were around, but they were expensive, usually running over $1000 each, an expense smaller shops, and even race teams found excessive. so i learned to tune carbs the old fashioned way, by reading the plugs, listening to teh exhaust note, the way the car felt, etc. as i gained experience working with carbs, i found i could make better judgements on how much and which way to make jetting, mettering rod or power valve changes, and even learned to tune weber carbs, though i dont have great experience tuning them so if i ever have to tune a set it will take me longer to get them right.

these days, if i need to tune a carbed engine, it takes me about as long to tune one, as it does for modern tech to set up the equipment and measure the gas levels.

maybe one day i will pick up an inexpensive exhaust gas analyzer, who knows.
 
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