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I would not be surprised at all, now that you mention it. They are prime parts candidates to be made by that process.
 

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one issue with a lot of cranking to start a carbed set up is if your using a mechanical pump or electric. The dual quad set up uses a electric pump usually just turn the key and wait a bit as the fuel fills the bowels noted by some clicking like sounds and fires up. this is after sitting for a week or months.
My dualy uses doth electric in the tanks and mechanical pump. it has to be cranked a bit after sitting for some time.
77 tbird mechanical needs a lot of cranking to start after sitting for weeks or more.
BTW none of these vehicles have a choke working the quads dont even have choke horns anymore

thought about a dual efi set up instead of dual carbs but the dont make 4 bbl versions the size i woud consider would have had to go dual 2 bbl.. 3 2 bbl set up might have considered as i have seen that done but even then it was on a BB as 2 bbl ones could be a bit large for a SB which might work best with 3 1bbls.
 

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OK...looking for advice here. My local Holley authorized shop is pushing the Terminator over the Sniper. He said he has had multiple Sniper owners switch up to the Terminator and went on to say the Terminator was much easier to tune, etc. He went on to say the Sniper was best for "stock" type engines (which mine is not, but a N/A 357W under 500hp isn't exactly "custom").

The other local hotrod shop was pushing FiTech but estimated $2k in labor for installation. So I'm looking at other options.

Am I getting upsold? I want to do this once/right and don't expect to use forced induction/NO2 in the future, but I don't want to waste $1k on a terminator when I could use that money elsewhere.
 

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Am I getting upsold? I want to do this once/right and don't expect to use forced induction/NO2 in the future, but I don't want to waste $1k on a terminator when I could use that money elsewhere.
It sounds suspicious doesn't it. I would ask for specifics- what did these customers need the Sniper to do that it wouldn't? The terminator does have more versatility, and it should for $1k more. If you can nail down what the issues were, I'll bet that Holley tech has a work-around for the Sniper.
 

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OK...looking for advice here. My local Holley authorized shop is pushing the Terminator over the Sniper. He said he has had multiple Sniper owners switch up to the Terminator and went on to say the Terminator was much easier to tune, etc. He went on to say the Sniper was best for "stock" type engines (which mine is not, but a N/A 357W under 500hp isn't exactly "custom").

The other local hotrod shop was pushing FiTech but estimated $2k in labor for installation. So I'm looking at other options.

Am I getting upsold? I want to do this once/right and don't expect to use forced induction/NO2 in the future, but I don't want to waste $1k on a terminator when I could use that money elsewhere.
So I am going to go ahead say that are trying to 100% screw you.

Sniper vs. FiTech - well that's a coin toss- but the Terminator is a way more serious set-up and really not needed for the vast majority of us. Don't waste your money.

$2k for install? GTFO these things are 4 - 6 wires hook ups, you need one hole drilled in your exhaust for o2 sensor, and fuel pump and lines. I don't think I had 8 total hours in it doing it all myself.

here is what I did and spent

FiTech - I paid $799 (was the $999 model, had $100 rebate plus 10% summit code)
Spectra EFI 20g fuel tank, pump and sending unit ~$320 (from Rockauto w/5% off code) https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6404193&cc=1132489&jsn=442
Fuel lines & fittings about $150 or so:
Used my original 5/16 hard line for return
bought a new 3/8 hard line for send
Cut both at the firewall and ran braided lines up to FiTech
Total ~$1,200
Done.
 

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It sounds suspicious doesn't it. I would ask for specifics- what did these customers need the Sniper to do that it wouldn't? The terminator does have more versatility, and it should for $1k more. If you can nail down what the issues were, I'll bet that Holley tech has a work-around for the Sniper.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Outside of the idle adjustment for A/C, a N/A engine is pretty straightforward. I thought I remembered reading that the tuning software was the same for both units, but the terminator has the additional capabilities to accommodate nitrous, blowers, etc. Most of the posts I read here love their Snipers, but the Holley Sniper FB page seems to have just as many people having issues with thiers (mostly because of O2 sensors going out pre-maturely).
 

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$2k for install? GTFO these things are 4 - 6 wires hook ups, you need one hole drilled in your exhaust for o2 sensor, and fuel pump and lines. I don't think I had 8 total hours in it doing it all myself.
Yeah, that is what really raised red flags. Maybe I misunderstood the guy, but I was expecting $2-2500 all in, with a tanks inc and other small upgrades.
 

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I caught a fairly recent episode of Iron Resurrection on Velocity, and they did a dual FiTech setup on a 409. With all the problems guys have reported getting one FiTech to run, I thought two sounded crazy. They didn't talk about it at all, just showed it as they panned over the motor.
 

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I had the sniper on, wired, plumbed and running in 2hrs.

My 420hp 331 stroker loves it.

Anyone that has issues with either the Fitech or Sniper, is usually a wiring screw up(they didn't read the directions) or pre existing problem. Follow the instructions to a Tee. Make good connections. Should be straightforward.

Some people run a relay off the ignition switch for the sniper key signal. Some, like myself just add a wire.
 

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Welp, I may regret not going "all out" but the Sniper is on order along with their Dizzy and fuel tank. More to follow!
Let us know how it works out for you. I'm planning on getting one as well. I think the Terminator is way overkill and that the shop just wanted to upsell you on it. The Sniper says it will go up to what... 650hp? I think that will work for 95% of applications on here and if not, they make a bigger version that handles up to like 1500hp for slightly more money. I definitely think the shop guy was trying to get some more money out of you, I'd do the Sniper on your own as I hear it's only like 4 wires that you have to route and hook up as well as fuel lines for your gas tank and a few other minor things? Looks incredibly easy to install.
 

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Welp, I may regret not going "all out" but the Sniper is on order along with their Dizzy and fuel tank. More to follow!
You won't! That shop was trying to push their overstock Terminator models on you, since everybody was buying the sniper while the Terminator sits on the shelf.

I bought the Terminator when it first came out as the Sniper had not been invented yet. Great product, worked flawlessly on my 500 hp 383 Stroker. I probably didn't use half of the functions.

I now have the Sniper on another vehicle with a Keith Craft 600 hp 427...works just as flawlessly as the Terminator and ran in "closed loop" from the first turn of the key on the Street setting.

What you have is nowhere near too wild for the Sniper to handle!
 

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It goes straight to closed loop without any oxygen sensor feedback? Weird.
 

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It goes straight to closed loop without any oxygen sensor feedback? Weird.
Don't know what the point of the smart comment is...we both know the temperature has to reach 160* for it to enter "closed loop". So no, not "weird", just you trying to prove some meaningless point when that wasn't the intent of what I was posting.
 

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Well.
OEM EFI setups do not enter closed loop until the oxygen sensors come up to temperature and provide a solid reading. To hasten that process they are equipped with heaters. All this I know. I don't play with aftermarket setups and can only hazard that they can get away with going straight to closed loop when cold because they don't have to meet pollution specs. But that's all guesswork until someone who has used and successfully set up one of these systems AND is knowledgeable about how they work might decide to be kind enough to fill me in on what they are doing and how. I thought one of those people might be in this thread. Perhaps I was mistaken.
 

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You won't! That shop was trying to push their overstock Terminator models on you, since everybody was buying the sniper while the Terminator sits on the shelf.

I bought the Terminator when it first came out as the Sniper had not been invented yet. Great product, worked flawlessly on my 500 hp 383 Stroker. I probably didn't use half of the functions.

I now have the Sniper on another vehicle with a Keith Craft 600 hp 427...works just as flawlessly as the Terminator and ran in "closed loop" from the first turn of the key on the Street setting.

What you have is nowhere near too wild for the Sniper to handle!
Thanks for the reassurance! I'm sure it will be fine. I can't wait to get it back on the road!
 

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Well.
OEM EFI setups do not enter closed loop until the oxygen sensors come up to temperature and provide a solid reading. To hasten that process they are equipped with heaters. All this I know. I don't play with aftermarket setups and can only hazard that they can get away with going straight to closed loop when cold because they don't have to meet pollution specs. But that's all guesswork until someone who has used and successfully set up one of these systems AND is knowledgeable about how they work might decide to be kind enough to fill me in on what they are doing and how. I thought one of those people might be in this thread. Perhaps I was mistaken.
You're right. Until the o2 sensors are heated up and giving feedback you can't go into close loop mode fueling. There are a bunch of parameters you can adjust on aftermarket ecu's(maybe not all), about when you go into closed loop and out of closed loop. In my Haltech I don't have it going into closed loop until it hits 130 as I find it easier to use the open loop fuel maps for when it's cold. I can adjust other parameters for close loop fueling, such as throttle position and map sensor readings. I am not sure in OEM maps how soon they go into closed loop, however through their R&D they would have the perfect fueling already sorted for function and emissions, so closed loop wouldn't really be necessary right away as their open loop maps would be spot on.
 

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Well.
OEM EFI setups do not enter closed loop until the oxygen sensors come up to temperature and provide a solid reading. To hasten that process they are equipped with heaters. All this I know. I don't play with aftermarket setups and can only hazard that they can get away with going straight to closed loop when cold because they don't have to meet pollution specs. But that's all guesswork until someone who has used and successfully set up one of these systems AND is knowledgeable about how they work might decide to be kind enough to fill me in on what they are doing and how. I thought one of those people might be in this thread. Perhaps I was mistaken.
You know the internet, sometimes things get lost in translation. You're comment came off, to me at least, as trying to point out an error when that wasn't the intent of what I was posting.

The aftermarket set-up does not go directly to "closed loop". The unit will not start "learning" until the engine temp is at least 160*. At that point, it will enter "closed loop" and start adjusting the air/fuel mixture...adding and subtracting as necessary through different RPM's.
 

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I have the Holley terminator, but only because I already had the HP ECU.

If I was to do it again, I would go with the sniper.
 
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