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Buyer beware is all I can say.
 

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Only 22K now. that looks like the roof skin sitting on a pallet leaned up against the wall on the left side of the pic. Seller says the new buyer will have to purchase a Dynacorn roof structure kit.
 

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this Is illegal
Legal to sell a VIN and title alone as long as the original car isn’t reported stolen and not recovered. It’s the trying to defraud someone that’s not legal. He’s pretty clear about what it is. But $22k for a conversion project? I’d pass. I’d rather pay $15-20k for a roller/thrasher with the original provenence.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
It’s illegal to remove a vin off a vehicle. And it’s illegal to place a vin number on a vehicle.
so how is this legal to you?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
California Vehicle Code 10750 PC makes it a misdemeanor to:
  • intentionally deface, destroy, or alter a VIN, or
  • place or stamp a VIN or other ID number on a vehicle except as assigned by the California DMV.8
 

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Discussion Starter #27
California Vehicle Code 10802 VC makes it is a crime to:
1. knowingly:
  • alter,
  • counterfeit,
  • deface,
  • destroy,
  • disguise,
  • falsify,
  • forge,
  • obliterate, or
  • remove
 

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Is there a limit to how many parts you can replace? NO. I think Ford even licensed the Dynacorn body as a replacement part. The seller is not violating any of the codes above.


California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH § 10802
Any person who knowingly alters, counterfeits, defaces, destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates, or removes vehicle identification numbers, with the intent to misrepresent the identity or prevent the identification of motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts, for the purpose of sale, transfer, import, or export,,,,,

The ad is very clear. Nothing is being misrepresented:
 

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The sale of parts and papers in not a crime, and our E bay seller knows this. It looks, however, like like he is hoping to induce his buyer intro commiting a fraud, while he profits handsomely with no risk. A 390 4 spd Stang is indeed a valueable car. A Re-body recreation is still nice, but not worth nearly as much. I'm guessing our E bay seller is very knowlegable, and very careful, and is hoping for a 'stars in his eyes' buyer who is less careful and less knowlegable. I'm not going to call it illegal, but it seems misleading at least. LSG
 

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The other Ebay factor that is a nonstarter every-time is someone with a (0) seller rating. That's when you setup an ebay account to sell trash so you can disappear.
 

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It’s illegal to remove a vin off a vehicle. And it’s illegal to place a vin number on a vehicle.
so how is this legal to you?
Those prohibitions only apply with the intent to defraud. Selling a piece of paper and a VIN stamp separate from the car is perfectly legal. You need to read the law in the entire context. That’s how law works. ;)

Where you run into problems is what you do with the completed car. You might be OK if built just for yourself but when you came to flip it there may be problems. If there is original metal and parts you could argue restoration but I don’t see this has any original parts. If that roof top skin is usable that could be all it takes. That said Mark Worman and other shops do this kind of restoration all the time where only a piece or two of the original is usable. Plenty of classics have been brought back using hardly any original metal.
 

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All this talk about legality you guys make it sound as if some moron is actually going to "pony" up $22k for this pile of scrap metal and then another $23-40k to "restore" it. (Insert rolling on the floor laughing my ass off emoji here)
 

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You’re going to have more than $40k into It. There is $20k or better in quality paint and body. Trim, interior, powertrain is going to add up. Doesn’t look like he has more than a roofless coupe, VIN tag and title. But, there’s one born every minute and some of these rich dudes looking to get into a classic have more money than sense (not that us everyday guys have much sense when it comes to bringing back these old cars). There are people all the time that bring back cars and spend two/three more times than it’s worth. Or more. Remember the Metalworks build where the couple absolutely wanted the same carcass restored into a restomod? IIRC that was $100k + in labor alone and they only ended up with the cowl as the original part of the car. It was a stellar build but didn’t come cheap.

Were it me wanting to do something like that I’d offer the guy $10k for the VIN and title and if he wanted to dump the roller I’d take it off his hands and get rid of it then start with either a not too bad Fastback or a new full shell. And even then it’s not really what the VIN says it is...
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Called my local CHP, they said it’s NOT legal to REMOVE a vin off the vehicle and it’s NOT LEGAL transfer it onto another vehicle.
that people do it and get away with it?they said YES especially with classic cars.
 

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Called my local CHP, they said it’s NOT legal to REMOVE a vin off the vehicle and it’s NOT LEGAL transfer it onto another vehicle.
that people do it and get away with it?they said YES especially with classic cars.
The proper authorities in your case are the DMV. The chip you talked to (and you) need to read VEH 10750(b). It covers in detail the law in California. The feds mandate jurisdiction to the states along with the process. We aren’t talking about moving a VIN to another vehicle. We’re talking about restoring a vehicle. Which is fine as long as you get permission first. In NV you don’t need prior permission but you will have to have the car signed off by a salvage shop and have a DMV VIN inspection. Several if not most states have provisions for restoration. In the case of CA in VEH 17051 there is a provision for repair of collision damage.

VEH 17050 Law section

VEH 17050(b) in whole...
This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the restoration is authorized by the department, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof.
In this specific case the guy is at least off into the gray. When restoring or even in production collision the use of salvaged parts is pretty common if not the standard in many cases. What makes this one special is that it looks like the only surviving piece of metal is the roof. And we don’t know the provenance of that part to begin with. The donor car could very well be considered “parts” for the restoration. The only way to know is to talk to the DMV and let them know what’s happening.
 

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Called my local CHP, they said it’s NOT legal to REMOVE a vin off the vehicle and it’s NOT LEGAL transfer it onto another vehicle.
that people do it and get away with it?they said YES especially with classic cars.
Again, he's not removing a VIN. The metal piece with the VIN IS the car. The rest is parts. You asked the CHP the wrong question. Many LEO don't know a lot about the laws they enforce.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
he states he cut the vin out and with the sale has a donor coupe.
DMV refereed me to CHP for vin questions.

Included in this sale together with the vin cut outs are a clear California title on non operation and a California built 67 donor coupe that is pictured.
 
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