[Woodchuck]

I never liked the Ford P/S set up.

Over the course of time, not only did Ford use the Bendix-type assist system, but so did GM, Chrysler, Studebaker and Packard. GM used it through 1982.

 

[Black Gold 380R]

Over the course of time, not only did Ford use the Bendix-type assist system, but so did GM, Chrysler, Studebaker and Packard. GM used it through 1982.

I was unaware of that. I do know my 77 Ford Granada had the exact same P/S system on it as my 65 did.

That would imply it was a very effective system. I'm not doubting that as when the system is new if functioned very well. My problem was once it got old and started to wear out after replacing one part another part would go bad and it seemed like an endless cycle of replacing parts on that particular P/S system.

I guess the best way to go with it would be to have @CHOCK rebuild the entire system at the same time once it starts to fail.

I had very good luck with the Borgesen back in 2010 and now the power rack and pinon I'm currently running.

 

[68RestoCoupeT5]

I have a Borgeson unit on my '68. It works really well, and provides good steering feel. I did have to replace the seals after the box got cooked by the very close headers. I installed a DEI heat shield, and all has been well since.

 

[Huskinhano]

From all the reading I've done on this forum it seems pretty much all of the bad rap the stock power steering gets are from the folks that are driving a worn out, leaking system. Would be nice to hear from folks with a good working stock setup.

I think another factor is alignment. We all know stock alignment specs just plain suck. Even manual steering in good shape but stock alignment isn’t going to drive well. I’ll bet with a few degrees of caster the stock PS will drive a lot better. Another culprit I’ve found is the idler arm. Running a roller bearing idler arm really makes the steering more precise and direct.

 

[Helmantel]

Power steering is a rather amusing topic. 15 years ago, everybody hated the stock power steering system and rack an pinion conversions were a hot topic, discussed all the time. Then most people found out that a rack and pinion from an 80's car and fitting it to an old Mustang with no compromises in function and fitment was actually not very straightforward at all. Then the Borgeson integral power steering box came along which appeared to be a great solution. No more leaking power steering junk under the engine, but everything integrated neatly into the steering box. Fantastic! according to some. Nothing but trouble! according to others......

Now everybody is in the "what have I been saying all these years..." mode and recommends the obvious: a properly rebuild and adjusted stock Ford power steering system 😁

In the mean while, I keep my upper body fit with my properly rebuild and adjusted stock Ford quick ratio manual box, including quick ratio pitman arms

 

[CHOCK]

Over the course of time, not only did Ford use the Bendix-type assist system, but so did GM, Chrysler, Studebaker and Packard. GM used it through 1982.

If so bad--Why did Chevy keep using on the Corvette 63-82, EXACT SAME concept. You sure will not see a proud Corvette guy put one of those Argentina Isuzu knock off in.
You say Argentina, Yes these new boxes are made in Argentina, a bolt or two, maybe tweeked with, then sold as made in US. Really pisses me of!
Argentina POOR quality metal/parts will wear easily, give extreme poor durability. This is why after only 5-6 years they are being replaced with other steering. Be it original, or electric.

 

[Huskinhano]

Power steering is a rather amusing topic. 15 years ago, everybody hated the stock power steering system and rack an pinion conversions were a hot topic, discussed all the time. Then most people found out that a rack and pinion from an 80's car and fitting it to an old Mustang with no compromises in function and fitment was actually not very straightforward at all. Then the Borgeson integral power steering box came along which appeared to be a great solution. No more leaking power steering junk under the engine, but everything integrated neatly into the steering box. Fantastic! according to some. Nothing but trouble! according to others......

Now everybody is in the "what have I been saying all these years..." mode and recommends the obvious: a properly rebuild and adjusted stock Ford power steering system 😁

In the mean while, I keep my upper body fit with my properly rebuild and adjusted stock Ford quick ratio manual box, including quick ratio pitman arms

Attention to detail goes a long way. As you know I’ve said often I put fresh grease in the box (16:1) along with the roller bearing idler arm has really done wonders. I also have 4* caster, manual steering. I have a 16” Mota wheel on order.

 

[Ibcnul8r]

I converted over to the Borgeson set up about 4 or 5 years ago and have never had any problems since. Not a leak or anything. This is currently in my 69 vert, 351W, 4 bbl.
The original power steering system from the factory always leaked. Never really cared for it.
That’s my short answer.
Good luck and hope everything works out for you

 

[Helmantel]

Same as I have (except 3 deg caster IIRC). I really didn't like the steering before I went through it properly, but once I did I actually like it. Not "like a modern car" at all but enjoyable non the less. Parking in tight spaces isn't great fun though....

I was watching a video of a Dutch real estate millionaire who's big into vintage racing (he has a few original Cobras, a GT40, several Lolas, 60's Ferraris, Alfas, 65 Mustang and a whole lot more). Originally, he raced modern endurance race cars at Le Mans until he was invited to race a 65 GT350 at Spa. Steering down the straight was like "milking a cow" as he described it, but he liked it so much that he switched to vintage racing. Now the best thing he knows is "dancing" around the track in a 289 Cobra.

Racing Cobras is all in the family - YouTube

 

[RudeMan]

From all the reading I've done on this forum it seems pretty much all of the bad rap the stock power steering gets are from the folks that are driving a worn out, leaking system. Would be nice to hear from folks with a good working stock setup.

Yup. That would be great Brian, especially considering I already purchased a new control valve for more than what the borgeson box cost. I’m going to have to try to sell it. The other thing is I have a 4 speed manual and that means I have to buy the borg. Z-bar as well. Also there are figment issues with headers, which I have.

 

[CHOCK]

Yup. That would be great Brian, especially considering I already purchased a new control valve for more than what the borgeson box cost. I’m going to have to try to sell it. The other thing is I have a 4 speed manual and that means I have to buy the borg. Z-bar as well. Also there are figment issues with headers, which I have.

If you paid more for a new control vale than a Argentina box--YOU GOT SCREWED--Royally my friend.

 

[RudeMan]

Rude, get your stock components rebuilt by Chock. The Borgeson system is NOT an upgrade. The B box is a reworked light duty box from an Isuzu Trooper, which has front steering, and our cars are setup for rear steering. Almost all of the complaints and comparisons are from folks with worn out steering pieces. Get the right guy to rebuilt the stuff you already have, ask Opthos- he installed a B system, and found it inferior, and took it off and went back to the stock system. The Borgeson stuff is just a way to make your car less than it already is, AND lighten your wallet at the same time. Do not fall for it. LSG

Thanks brother. I appreciate this seemingly contrary position. I fear that when I had my new control valve installed it was done badly. Jitter wheel blues.

 

[RudeMan]

If you paid more for a new control vale than a Argentina box--YOU GOT SCREWED--Royally my friend.

Yeah thanks. Now your making me feel bad. I’m going to go back and see what I paid but I’m pretty sure it was 5 or 6 hundred. Not sure I see anything cheaper on line at the moment for a 65 / 66 ?

 

[D10E]

I've got a '68 that originally had power steering. I didn't like what I considered the excess assist at highway speeds. I removed it and converted to manual steering and ran that for several years. When I did some other work on it recently I went to the Borgeson setup, rebuilt my original power steering pump, and added heat reflective sleeves to the hoses(I have headers). I've been happy with the system and am running 4/4.5* caster with 17" tires while still being able to turn at a dead stop.I had to work through some camber settings to get a better center at highway speeds but overall I've been happy with the box. Just my $.02.

 

[Westmus]

If so bad--Why did Chevy keep using on the Corvette 63-82, EXACT SAME concept.

According to what I read on some Corvette forum it was mostly based on the beam counters. That Saginaw actually developed the prototype for an modern integrated power steering box for the C3, but that this project got thumbs down after calculations on the total cost of making that change on the Corvette.

 

[RudeMan]

I have a Borgeson unit on my '68. It works really well, and provides good steering feel. I did have to replace the seals after the box got cooked by the very close headers. I installed a DEI heat shield, and all has been well since.
[/QUOIfvi

If I go the borgeson rout I’d be interested in talking to you about that as well as fitment. Right now my stock box is already about 1/2 to 3/4 inch away from my headers. So not sure if the borgeson box will be too big.

 

[Stevert66]

The other thing is I have a 4 speed manual and that means I have to buy the borg. Z-bar as well. Also there are figment issues with headers, which I have.

My '66 with a toploader had the Borgeson conversion on it when I bought it. It also had a set of tri-y's that hit everything (bellhousing, z-bar, Borgeson box, you name it!).

FWIW, I replaced the z-bar with the Borgeson one and put a set of JBA 6613SJS long-tube headers on it. The driver's side header was kind of a PIA to get in, but once it was in it cleared everything nicely (as did the PS header). Spendy, but worth it IMHO.

 

[RudeMan]

My '66 with a toploader had the Borgeson conversion on it when I bought it. It also had a set of tri-y's that hit everything (bellhousing, z-bar, Borgeson box, you name it!).

FWIW, I replaced the z-bar with the Borgeson one and put a set of JBA 6613SJS long-tube headers on it. The driver's side header was kind of a PIA to get in, but once it was in it cleared everything nicely (as did the PS header). Spendy, but worth it IMHO.

Thanks. I’ve got tri-y’s which I’d like not to have to replace at least for now. So got to be careful.

 

[subpar63]

From all the reading I've done on this forum it seems pretty much all of the bad rap the stock power steering gets are from the folks that are driving a worn out, leaking system. Would be nice to hear from folks with a good working stock setup.

Stock setup on my '66 FB - I had Dan do the rebuild 7/8 years ago. Knock on wood but I have had no issues since, including the aforementioned infamous leak issues. My opinion, spend the money with Dan and have it done right. YMMV

John

 

[zray]

Thanks brother. I appreciate this seemingly contrary position. I fear that when I had my new control valve installed it was done badly. Jitter wheel blues.

im with @LSG , @Woodchuck and @CHOCK, all 100%.

just do whatever you have to do to get a stock system working as new. Usually that’s a call to @CHOCK which will end up saving you $$ , time, and headaches.