Me too sir. I need it. Live and learn...
Toploader Downshift Issue
I rebuilt a wide ratio TL last winter which is now in my car behind a new engine and clutch assembly. The trans shifts beautifully up through all gears at any RPM. It downshifts very smoothly fourth to third. It will not downshift third to second without grinding excessively or at all, or second to first. When I drop below say 10 MPH, it will downshift with no issues. Car not moving or not running, it glides into all gears up and down with no issues.
I spoke to Dan Williams where I bought the kit from and he suggested driving for 500 miles, changing the gear oil and seeing if it gets any better. I have a couple threads here saying Toploaders really don't get any better than day one after a rebuild. It is what it will be.
Thoughts?
I spoke to Dan Williams where I bought the kit from and he suggested driving for 500 miles, changing the gear oil and seeing if it gets any better. I have a couple threads here saying Toploaders really don't get any better than day one after a rebuild. It is what it will be.
Thoughts?
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Patrick: I have the same issue with my Toploader. I can downshift 4 to 3 and even 2 to 1, but the 3 to 2 can sometimes be a pain. There are times when I try to downshift from 3d and it doesn't even feel like it wants to go into 2d. I've discovered that if I'm downshifting from 3d to 2d, if I move the shifter slightly towards 1st then go towards 2d, it goes right into gear. I'm not racing my car, so that slight hesitation from 3d to 2d while doing what I described is no big deal. I'm sure it's a synchro issue, and moving towards 1st is doing something to get everything lined up properly. Next time I pull the transmission, I'll go inside and take a look. Until now, I'll live with it.
Lee. Thanks for the input. I changed the fluid hoping that would cure the problem and I'm going to drive it for now. My wife signed me up for a show to benefit her kids sports teams in a couple weeks. So I have to finish reassembly of the car for that. I'll probably pull the trans after that show. Dan Williams is only a four hour drive from me. I'm really interested in determining what I did wrong so I'll probably drive it there, tear it down with him, and let him educate me.
I really hoped the fluid change would would fix it. I have spoken to Dan and he suggested I drive it at least 500 miles and I will. However, I don't have much faith that will fix this issue. If it didn't work so well in every other aspect, I wouldn't suspect that I screwed something up in the 1/2 area.
I really hoped the fluid change would would fix it. I have spoken to Dan and he suggested I drive it at least 500 miles and I will. However, I don't have much faith that will fix this issue. If it didn't work so well in every other aspect, I wouldn't suspect that I screwed something up in the 1/2 area.
I've ran that Sta-Lube GL4 gear oil from Amazon in my toploader for many miles and can confirm that it works exceptionally well. I put it in my toploader after I rebuilt it and it operated flawlessly from the beginning without a noticeable break-in.
I'm running a Hurst Comp/Plus shifter and I did run into issues initially with slipping out of gear or not going into a gear because I hadn't adjusted the linkage precisely enough. Additionally, the threaded ends of the shift rods at the shifter were too long and were binding; since cutting off the excess threads it goes into any gear at any speed and never jumps out of gear.
Best of luck with resolving your issues!
-Brent
I'm running a Hurst Comp/Plus shifter and I did run into issues initially with slipping out of gear or not going into a gear because I hadn't adjusted the linkage precisely enough. Additionally, the threaded ends of the shift rods at the shifter were too long and were binding; since cutting off the excess threads it goes into any gear at any speed and never jumps out of gear.
Best of luck with resolving your issues!
-Brent
Pat, I'd be inclined to run it for a while as Dan suggested. You would think if it shifts fine going up, it should work going down. Who knows but it must be frustrating.
Running a pilot BEARING or BUSHING?
Bushing
I believe Woody asked the bearing/bushing question to indicate that maybe the transmission's input shaft is binding inside a pilot bushing.
Had the input Shaft polished and the bushing matched for a slip fit at the machine shop. I guess anything is possible. How would that issue affect downshifts and not all shifts?
Non working Synchro's are more sensitive in the downshifting than in the upshifting. That's my bet.
Carnac the great
Carnac the great
I think your probably right Z. I had to miss something. It's coming back out soon. Getting exhaust put back on right now. I'll open the box and try to determine what's happening. Beyond that I'll just take it to Dan.
Patrick: Once you get it all figured out, let us (me!) know. I'm having the same issue and would like to tackle it next time I open it up. 
Yes - please share - I'm not having this issue with my recent changeover but would like the information for the memory bank just in case.Patrick: Once you get it all figured out, let us (me!) know.
Copy that.
Someone on this forum once said "it's as important to shift out of gear as it is to shift into gear" on these toploaders. Once I grasped that, I found myself having less problems.
Well got the entire car put back together today. Decided to take it around the block before I went to lunch with my wife. Started down the road, shifted into second. Came to end of road, shifted into first. Turned and started down the next street, shifted into second, accelerated and tried to shift to third...locked in second. Limped back home in second. Pulled into the shop and put it up on stands, could not get it unjammed. Yanked the trans, popped the top...one of the 1-2 dogs was jammed half way into the first gear brass blocker ring, which was destroyed. Gear lube was full of brass shavings. Driving it to Dan Williams in the morning. Going to be a long day.
Very interested in hearing the post mortem.Non working Synchro's are more sensitive in the downshifting than in the upshifting. That's my bet.
Carnac the great
Sorry. (From the front porch of Funk & Wagnals)
Z
I'm sure I'll get proper needed education tomorrow. Will post the results.
Just rolled back into the house. 8 hours of driving, 2 hours of R&R on the TL, and 4 hours of talking...well listening. That man Dan Williams can tell some stories, and if any of you need a little humility in your life, I know exactly where you can get a whopping dose. First, dont read the instructions which Dan includes with his rebuild kits...which I read at least four times, them show up at his house with a broken transmission.
Turns out, I only made a couple small mistakes, other than that, I had the trans assembled properly. There were a few things Dan didn't like in the shaft fits and shift rail lever fits...most were too tight for his liking. He was happy wth the bearing fits on the main shaft. I followed those instructions and had the shaft poloshed to within .0005 clearance.
So the culprit of my TL failure and undoing of my self confidence...the synchro teeth on the second and third gears were all but destroyed. Which I didn't know. Second being the worst which is why I could not downshift to second. The gear and bronze blocker ring would have never synced. This also led to one of the dogs in the one/two synchro to eject itself into the first gear bronze blocker ring locking the trans into second. When Dan showed me what a new gear looks like, especially the synchro teeth in this case...I understood the failure.
So before you slap your TL back together, inspect all the teeth on every single piece. If you don't know what they are supposed to look like, GTS and educate yourself, or call Dan and ask...just leave yourself plenty of time for the phone call.
I will also add, Dan has to be one of the most giving kind gentlemen I have ever met. He R&R'd my TL free of labor and only charged me for parts. He also gave me a very nice hardback Mustang book. If you ever have the opportunity to drive and meet him, take it. However, don't show up before noon because you will be waiting. He works noon to midnight and beyond.
Turns out, I only made a couple small mistakes, other than that, I had the trans assembled properly. There were a few things Dan didn't like in the shaft fits and shift rail lever fits...most were too tight for his liking. He was happy wth the bearing fits on the main shaft. I followed those instructions and had the shaft poloshed to within .0005 clearance.
So the culprit of my TL failure and undoing of my self confidence...the synchro teeth on the second and third gears were all but destroyed. Which I didn't know. Second being the worst which is why I could not downshift to second. The gear and bronze blocker ring would have never synced. This also led to one of the dogs in the one/two synchro to eject itself into the first gear bronze blocker ring locking the trans into second. When Dan showed me what a new gear looks like, especially the synchro teeth in this case...I understood the failure.
So before you slap your TL back together, inspect all the teeth on every single piece. If you don't know what they are supposed to look like, GTS and educate yourself, or call Dan and ask...just leave yourself plenty of time for the phone call.
I will also add, Dan has to be one of the most giving kind gentlemen I have ever met. He R&R'd my TL free of labor and only charged me for parts. He also gave me a very nice hardback Mustang book. If you ever have the opportunity to drive and meet him, take it. However, don't show up before noon because you will be waiting. He works noon to midnight and beyond.
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